I have been reading this list and there is a wonderful blend of religions and thoughts.
My question is:
If you ask your Deity for forgiveness for hurting someone and the person that you hurt will not forgive you, will karma come after you?
Most protestant Christians don’t talk about karma just forgiveness from god. Pagans that I have met really don’t ask their deities for forgiveness exactly. So what are your thoughts on this?
Asked by Karen
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Hello Karen,
My understanding is this; in this life, if you do something wrong, realize what was done was wrong, apologize and try to make amends then nothing will happen to you, because you are paying for the mistake now. Even if the other person does not forgive you, you are learning from what you have done and somehow paying the price. The most important thing for you to do now is forgive yourself. God waits for us with open arms in heaven. You see, many religions teach that you will go to hell for this or that , but myself, I don’t believe in it. Oh, i believe there is a Hell, but it’s not where humans go(unless you barter with the devil.) But, whatever you believe, forgive yourself and pray to God, and don’t worry about the “three fold” thing; if you’ve done your best to make amends, I don’t think you will feel repercussions. Just try to find ways to better yourself and learn from the experience. And FORGIVE! FORGIVE! FORGIVE! That and Love is the key to everything.
If you are truly repent of whatever sin or hurt someone if the sorry is truly meant and only you GOD knows this than I believe it’s forgiven. If the person in guestion is not ready to accept your apology than that’s for person to do in his/her own time.
So, if someone broke into your home and tortured and then murdered your entire family but you and then later felt regret and repented to God for what they did then you would have to accept that?
You do not have to accept anything, CT, thanks to the gift of free will. However it is to our own self betterment that we strive to find forgiveness in our hearts, not just for that other person, but for ourselves. Holding a grudge is like trying to walk around 24/7 with a 50lb weight on your shoulders; it becomes a burden. You don’t have to forget what they’ve done; just forgive. I, myself, do not know how I would react to the situation you described; I might react as any other human would when wronged in such a manner,with hurt, and anger, but forgiveness for our own sake is beneficial. I would have to strive toward it, struggle even, and I know this.But, do I have the choice to forgive or not, you bet!!! Do I think God will frown upon me because I didn’t forgive? Who knows; maybe, maybe not. but the beauty is that we have the lovely gift of being able to chose that for ourselves.
Hi CT, (and everyone)
What I would want to do to the person, or people, and what I actually would do, hopefully would be two different things.
I’ve told you guys about the lady in Sydney who forgave the murderer of her daughter. If I had to have a hero, she would be it. The amount of love, strength and courage it took to do that .. I can only hope I would have to be able to do the same thing .. and I’m the one that says ‘forgive!’ to everyone. I treasure my family, but I also understand karma .. and the murderer would have a lot of karma to work through because of the actions .. or .. they might have been repaying what my loved one did to them in another lifetime. The two of them would work it out when they both crossed over .. and I would want to be standing there when they did it.
But that isn’t actually Karen’s question, and it is a great question.
So .. first we regret, then we repent and then we ask God for forgiveness and ‘do’ something to show our sincerity to God, but when we go to the person we hurt, even in a small way, and they do not forgive … karma will not come after you. If you balance your wrong action with an equally strong, or stronger, right action, the debt is paid. That the victim chooses to hang onto their anger and pain, is not your karma. It is their choice. If the victim can see sincerity in your actions .. which is what karma is gathered by .. then their actions, being unforgiving, makes tough karma for them. Forgiveness is not always easy, but it is a process, much like peeling an onion. If we are willing, we can release one layer at a time, with or without tears, until we come to the ‘heart’ of the matter and simply let it all fall away. Unforgiveness wraps layers of pain around our hearts (emotions) and only we can strip them off again. In doing so we find all sorts of odd memories, related to the same beliefs or fears (but from other times in our lives), that have accumulated to add the weigh to our spirit that Luna talks about. For our own sakes, we need to set ourselves free – through forgiveness of others, no matter what they have done.
Otherwise we go into heaven, meet the same ‘people’ again, and get to live the same sort of experience again .. until we ‘get’ the lessons. Personally, I think once is enough.
Love & Peace
Ama
CT,
No one messes with my family.
I’m afraid I’d have to go Old Testament on his butt. But that’s just me
As always,
Keith
ROFL .. but don’t!
Love & Peace
Ama
dear CT
commonsense, religion, love and mercy are the signs of our life which lead us to a good and admirable life. when someone does a bad work, be sure that he/she ignored one of the mentioned signs. but if it is to be that the door of forgiveness is closed, do you think that living can be possible? e.g. i did a mistake so i must seclude myself, cry, become disappointed and finally kill myself in a morally dark world? life has been based on love, mercy and forgiveness.the door of god’s forgiveness always is open and he has ordered us to be so. but you are right from a viewpoint.if we just consider this theory, rubbers, killers, kidnappers,rapers,etc become impudent and will say with themselves: we do bad works then we will apologize and certainly will be forgiven. to prevent such anarchism, judgment laws and system were established in each community. the judgment system scrutinizes the work,extent of work,backwash of work,doer’s motivation and etc then issue a sentence according to the scrutiny.
meantime the most important point is that the main and fair judgment will be done by god in judgment day. he knows all the secret aspects of a work, he himself is the witness of all works , his gratuity or punishment is exactly equivalent with the work done.
dear readers,all the time, prevention is better than amends so lets try to be careful about works we do to prevent any regret and remorse.
I was just curious about it, its the sort of question that many would ask when talking about this subject. Thanks for your well thought out reply I appreciate it
Tara,
I made my OT comment before I read your comment. Eye for an eye sounds good sometimes, though, but alas…it just ain’t what Christ says.
Keith
Depends on the religion, Tara. Satanism is also a religion and they advocate selfishness. And then we have religious leaders who say ‘kill anyone who doesn’t agree with us’ – which is them demanding their followers do what they say, instead of thinking for themselves. Not good.
Love & Peace
Ama
First of all , Hello Ama
I came back. for two mount I wasn’t able connect to truetales I sent a massage to CT and reported him but he expressed is not aware about its reason too last weak I noticed that failure has disappeared and I can connect to this website but i couldn’t send anything until now . Also I noticed my daughter was interested to send some comment to this website (she had seen me previously I was writing some comment to truetales ) and she had sent a few comment but I didn’t know until today. Today,she told me that she has sent some comment here.I laughed and wondered very much which how she has interested such ( because I had never seen she write anything in paranormal theme ). Anyhow I wanted tell you Ama , ” Tara ” is my daughter
Hello Manss,
That would probably explain why I wondered where you were when I read Tara’s first message on the site. Families share a common energy bond.
I’m very glad you are back. You have a lot of reading to catch up on. LOL
Tara, hug your dad for me, if its appropriate.
Love & Peace
Ama
Hello Tara
Great answer!
I honestly believe it’s right to ask for forgiveness when you have wronged someone BUT, this Universe has a Consciousness which automatically balances the negatives and the positives – so if you have awareness, keep your eyes and ears pinned for the ‘balancing action’ no one really escapes karma. At least that is what I have seen and observed.
dear CT
your welcome. i do agree with you. when i read others’ ideas, questions and answers and reflex my answers or questions, i feel that my knowledge is growing. herewith i thank all the ones who participate in such discussion boards.
Hi Karen
Ah! Yes! Forgiveness and karma! A great question.
Forgiveness has to come from within ourselves, wholly and unconditionally. Until we truly forgive ourselves, we continue to torchure our souls. This is, to some extent, karma.
But, there is a huge difference between genuine repentance and simply not having a conscience about a wrong doing. It is not enough just to SAY you are sorry. Words mean nothing without sincerity. If you are not sincere how can you expect your Diety to just wipe the slate clean??
The same goes for forgiving others their failures or wrong-doings. Until we can truly and unconditionally forgive them for what they have done for us, that hatred for them will continue to live in our hearts and twist our minds.
CT
“So, if someone broke into your home and tortured and then murdered your entire family but you and then later felt regret and repented to God for what they did then you would have to accept that?”
Good point! And the answer is no, you woundn’t HAVE to accept that and forgive the person who tortured then murdered your entire family. However, in not coming to terms with it and letting go of the raw emotions, will cause you great pain for years to come. TBH who will end up hurting the most? It won’t be the person who did the deed. That said, it is extremely hard to forgive someone in circumstances such as these – I was repeatedly raped when I was in my early twenties and it took the best part 20 years to finally, truly (with hand on heart) forgive the man who did it. Up until that point, his actions affected my relationships and trust in humanity. I became a victim, not once but twice, whereas he just moved on and got on with his life without any solace for what he had done. So who came of worse?
AJ
x
In the long run, he will – karma being what it is, because you learned how to forgive.
Love & Peace
Ama
Actually Ama, I hope he doesn’t. It’s far better to be punished for something you know about, at the time, rather than the cruel twist of fate karma stands for – getting punished years hence when you don’t understand what it is that you’re getting punished for.
Besides, maybe the whole sordid affair was my punishment for something I did years ago, and that was the payback. Who knows?
But, whatever the reasons behind it, I hope bad karma does not return to him. I would not wish what I went through, nor how it effect me for years afterwards, on anyone.
AJ
x
You have a really good heart, AJ, but we never skip our karma. It’s not a punishment, its the lessons we bring upon ourselves. Yes, if he was repaying you for past behaviour, the pattern is finished, but if he wasn’t .. he has to learn to Let Love Rule.
Love & Peace
Ama
Hi A J Ryder,
Always be true to yourself that’s what I believe. The truth of the matter is – my nature is a ‘vengeful God given nature’ and I cannot pretend otherwise, I seldom forgive when I have been aggrieved but place my grievance before the ‘Powers That Be’ and wait patiently for the outcome, know and believe the unfolding results are truely amazingly satisfying and comprehensive.
One does not have to do a thing.
… Except learn forgiveness, Pat. Because then we truly let go of the outcome, rather than tying up our lives in ‘waiting’ for karma/God/PTB to get even with someone that has hurt us.
Love & Peace
Ama
Hi Ama
Forgiveness is not needed Ama – not in my book. The satisfaction of knowing/seeing the comprehensive ‘retaliatory’ response by the ‘Powers That Be’ unfolding before me, allows me to relax in the first instance. As I said Ama, if I am wronged unnecessarily and, being a very sensative individual, I am what I am and do not pretend otherwise – one reaps what one sews.
Pat, my dear, I am sending you Love and Light, because you need it. I am going out on a limb in assuming that you have been seriously wronged in your life, because that could be the only explanation for the surge of negative energy I am picking up from your words. Forgiveness is one of the toughest things for we humans to perform, but when we find it in our hearts to do so, it is liberating. People who start out on a “vengeful path” don’t end up on a good road. the road of vengeance is long, and in traveling that road, it twists you into something ugly. Vengeance consumes you and can even destroy you. If you do not learn that in this lifetime, you are destined to repeat this lesson in the next. That is just how Karma works. I am praying for you that you find healing and that maybe someday even find forgiveness. May God bless you and bestow you with His grace to be able to do so.
Forgiveness is always needed, Pat. Holding vengeance in your heart, waiting for God to do your angry work for you .. you ‘will’ destruction on another, and in doing so condemn yourself to the same. That’s how karma works. I am who I am also, and I understand anger, having been an angry person myself when I was younger, but the healing and peace of mind comes from finding love for those who harm us, and forgiveness for their actions.
I am sorry you are so hurt that you can only get ‘satisfaction’ from another person’s pain. I wish you could find the path to healing that allows us to let go of our anger and fear and find peace.
Love & Peace
Ama
Hello Lunaterra and Ama,
Thank you for the Love and Light, we all need it and believe it or not, I do bask in that menu, I’m really not a ‘vengeful ogre’, actually quite the reverse
However, I do make use of the Karmic laws. Remember who said ‘do not fret my child because vengeance is mine to carry out’ (sic), I ask for my pound of flesh and I get it in good measure – need I say more.
The quote I remember is ‘vengeance is mine, said the Lord’. We are not supposed to seek the pound of flesh .. we are supposed to give that task to God.
This is a very good topic, but I have NO time this morning. I am going away for the weekend. I’ll come back to it on monday.
Love & Peace
Ama
LOL! Pat.
All I’m going to say is, the day I really did forgive and let go (and I remember that day well) my soul felt as if this great big wave of warmth and love, happiness and contentment had washed over me. It made me cry – in fact, a tear of joy has just come to my eye again now, just from reliving it.
There really is no feeling like the feeling of forgiveness. I’d recommend it any day of the week.
AJ
x
And for the record, I don’t walk around consumed with anger or vengeance because it is offloaded where it can be dealt with more effectively – Faith can move mountains – believe me these are not empty words.
Love, Light and Peace
Hi Pat
“Obviously, the process of foregiveness was a tremendous release for you AJR and that’s very good for you. It’s a case of Horses for Courses isn’t it”
True!
AJ
x
I have always been known as a very good, respectable guy and also a bit of a perfectionist. A lot of people love me and trust me from just meeting me once. I have wronged a person, hurt that person deeply and angered their family that trusted me out of spite from that person hurting me. I apologized many times to the person I hurt. I am sincerely sorry for what I did. I cried many nights and lost 20lbs from regret and loss of appetite. I repented to God and turned from my past ways and I feel a lot better but every now and then I start thinking about my mistake and I fall back into the slump again and I begin to ask God to forgive me for the situation again and have mercy on me and don’t let it affect my future. I feel like I’m constantly looking over my shoulder waiting for karma to catch up with me. I also pray for a second chance to correct my mistake but I know that will never happen. Can anyone help me with this?
Hi Donald,
It’s not about God forgiving us, its about us forgiving ourselves. You have not forgiven yourself for what you did. Until you do it, truly and deeply, your ego will continue to taught you with your failure to be a good person. When you do, you will remember you did harm, but you will no longer punish yourself with your feelings. As for looking over your shoulder and expecting more pain, you are doing that to yourself as part of the process.
Let go. You have done all your can to make amends, now .. you know the saying .. let go and let God .. It’s time to forgive yourself.
Love & Peace
Ama Nazra (listed below under Friends)
You are truly a blessing Ama, truly a person of God thanks so much!
You are welcome.
Love & Peace
Ama
Hello all,
I’ve been reading and I’ve heard about Karma and now I’m a little confused.. ok, does karma have to do with reincarnation? And, does karma and Zen go hand in hand? I totally agree with forgiveness, it can be a very hard thing to do but like AJ said, in the long run it would be me who would suffer the most, and it kinda makes me think about the Bible saying to do good and pray for your enemies, but then it says that you heap hot coals upon thier heads.. now that is kinda doing a full 360 right back where you started from don’t you think? So, this is some of the things that confuse me.
Hi Lisa,
I am not surprised you are confused. If you use the bible as a basis for your belief system, you will end up tangled in knots. It contradicts itself over and over.
Karma .. a hindu word meaning ’cause and effect’ .. you cause something it has an effect on you. You do good, you receive good in return. You do evil .. you get the same or similar treatment back.
Reincarnation is only briefly glimpsed in the bible. Jesus mentions that John the Baptist used to be Elijah, who had been born 1000 or so years before either of those two. In reality, the here and now, millions of people have past life memories, including me, that defy many of the teachings in the bible .. such as all bad people go to hell.
Karma and reincarnation – from the biblical perspective, they don’t exist. You do wrong you go to hell and await judgment and then suffer forever. Obviously terrifies everyone, since we have so many villains these days (a little sarcasm there).
In the meantime, if you do something wrong in this lifetime, you will either pay for it .. legally or morally .. or even financially .. or you will ‘pay for it’ by redeeming yourself through correct behaviour in another lifetime. Let me give you a very simple example. I murder someone (can’t say I have never considered it, but I would not actually do it .. or hopefully not.
). I now owe that person a karmic debt for ending their life prematurely. In the next lifetime we both choose to be born at the same time, or close, and then that person murders me. Debt paid. What did each of us learn from the experience? That’s the important part of karma and reincarnation .. what do we learn about ourselves and Love through our actions.
Ok, so someone murders me in a previous life, and instead of me murdering them in this one, even though I have means, motive and opportunity, I choose to forgive them instead. Aha! What do we both learn from the experience? Forgiveness is one of the keys to all change on the planet. The others are gratitude and Love. If the person can accept the forgiveness and allow it to change their ‘life’, they too have grown spiritually, just as I have.
If you want to learn about spiritual growth through the biblical perspective, stick with what Jesus is said to have said, his words. Yes, he spoke in parables .. and they have to be interpreted, but the messages are there. “Love one another as I have Loved you” is the leading Light. He loved everyone, so does God .. otherwise we wouldn’t be able to reincarnate at all.
Zen and Reincarnation: My brief understanding is that Zen is the practise of certain rituals, or exercises, that help you achieve enlightenment in this lifetime, so that you can get off the karma wheel .. in other words not reincarnate anymore. This page might help explain things. http://www.zenguide.com/principles/index.cfm
Love & Peace
Ama
Thank you, Ama
Hmm.. wordpress won’t let me say ‘you are welcome’ twice .. so I changed the wording. LOL
Love & Peace
Ama
Hi Lisa
I get a little ‘confused’ by the Karma thing too. When does it stop? Who’s right to aminister the last ‘punishment’? TBH it ends up being no different than most wars – Israel v Palastine; Ireland (IRA); Bosnia etc. Who were the original innocent party? Who was the original agressor?
For that reason alone, I’m not really into the whole karma concept. Best just to forgive, learn from the experience and move on, without hatred in our hearts.
AJ
x
I can’t see the ‘karma of a community’ working either, but on an individual basis it makes perfect sense to me. There is no ‘last punishment’ given by anyone but ourselves. As for societies that have been warring with each other for so long they have forgotten why it started? It takes individuals to stop it. War does not run itself ‘yet’. Let’s hope the powers that be are not stupid enough to set up machines to make sure that happens. It will wipe out the human race.
About time we all learned to “forgive, learn from the experience and move on”.
Love & Peace
Ama
Hmmm..ok, and ya’ll bear with me plz lol…I’m probably going to end up sounding like “Left Brain”, that is what this lady comedian calls her husband LOL..and from how she talks about him, his cheese slid off of his cracker a long time ago.. anyways.. I think I can use Karma in what I think about our earth and human kind, I have always thought that the earth we live on now has been destroyed by flood many many times over… because of the earths fossils, dinosaur bones, Darwins so called theory about apes and man, and things that are dated many thousands of yrs ago. Now, we were made in the image of God, and long before light or anything was here, its written that the earth was here but void, but we know that there was water all over the earth, hence flooded, a pre adamant world before this one. That after time and time again, God made the decision to make us as He is, because even tho He had the angels he was lonely and loved us like a mother would her child and gave us free will this time, but set out the one NO NO, the tree of good and evil, don’t touch!.. This is where Lucifer started getting jealous, and causing trouble and we know what happneded with that and then, it all went to he$$ in a hand basket, so he spared Noah and family and there he promised not to destroy the earth by flood again. But, Karma kept coming back around, and man once again strayed, so to keep His promise to us and reward us was to promise ever lasting life, but it had to come from Christ, giving our soul the chance to be in spirit with God after living and doing the best we could here on this earth.
Hi Lisa,
If ‘left brain’ means logical .. I’m with you.
This stuff has to make sense. The last person who answered one of my awkward questions with ‘God works in mysterious ways, my child’ .. got a lecture and a half .. and I was rather young and not nearly as tactful as I try to be these days. LOL
Think of Noah like Adam .. only this time it seems that God allowed humanity a few more people to re-breed itself from .. problem was, all the men were related by blood .. Noah and his sons. Genetically, they would breed to birth defects within three generations, and die out not long afterwards. We are back to this being a mythological story, based on stories from other cultures around the Israelite society, but still just mythology.
Let’s be literal .. and pretend I believe the bible is a fact. God created the world, an empty space, also no water. He then let in Light and its opposite darkness. He added air, and its (sort of) opposite water, or was it water .. because we had ‘earth’ already .. and the fourth elemental of ‘life’ is fire. They all work in with each other. Maybe he dropped them in at the same time, which might explain the turbulence the planet then went through as it developed itself. (God must have had really long days … ? LOL) Then, after it had all calmed down, in popped omeba, and they developed into other entities, big and small .. and human.
Humans started out as innocents, knowing little, and over time developed the gifts that God had bestowed on the planet, how to look after ourselves and manipulate matter – like use fire, combined with the other elements, suddenly we have motor cars and rockets to the moon.
We are evolving as a species, learning what is right behaviour and wrong behaviour, based on what .. the teachings we get from those of us who have gone before us, like God, and Buddha, and Mohammad, and Gandhi, and Mother Theresa (I’m told she could swear like a trouper LOL), and other saintly people .. that means ‘ordinary people with extraordinary ideas’ .. or invented people like St Christopher and St Valentine, who never existed at all. What do we learn from them? What was their theme .. their base message. God, whichever God (or Nirvana), was a creative energy form based in a positive energy .. we call it Love.
Now karma .. developed because God gave us free will. He put the tree in the garden, not the devil .. you know I always find this very interesting. Then me hypothesize – God puts the tree in the garden and then tells us not to touch .. no problem. We are kids, we are mostly obedient, we hang around doing nothing all the time, changing nothing, basking in our safety, creating nothing .. how long before someone gets bored? Was it us or God, since he could get lonely? You know boredom, we all suffer from it from time to time. If God was lonely and wanted to be entertained by us, what did we do to entertain him with all that lying about? So he set us a challenge .. “I’ve already put in a tree, what would make them touch it? Then how would they develop from there?” Well, we are good children and we still don’t touch, because God said not to .. so .. add a protagonist, in pops ‘the devil’ .. encourages the children to touch the fruit, eat it .. and what happens. The humans don’t say ‘God you are wonderful, we love our new knowledge’ .. heck no, they hide away from God in Fear. I wonder if God realised humanity would learn fear from the tree? Well, it was the tree of Good and Evil, and being Good already, what was left to be learned?
Karma .. comes because we have a choise to act for good or evil, in every single moment, thought, feeling and reaction all our lives. It’s not a little thing, it cannot be denied. We can pretend it doesn’t exist, or we can learn to be better people because of it, or inspite of it. It’s up to us. Free will means ‘its always up to us’. Thank you God.
And another thought, the devil became jealous because God ‘gave’ humans free will, which the angels do not have. Humanity did nothing with it, there safe in the ‘garden’, so perhaps the devil understood the power of the gift, and chose to fall to be able to experience it?
Thank you, Lisa, very good topic. LOL
Love & Peace
Ama
Left brain has a headache lol… but this brought to mind a saying I use to use along time ago, Forgiveness is like the scent of a flower that still clings to the heal that crushed it. And, also it said to forgive thine brother 7×70… in ONE day! … thats alot of turning of the cheek… this has been a nice topic… I think I like Karma..thank you AJ and Ama
You are welcome, Lisa. That’s a lovely saying!
Love & Peace
Ama