What is Salvation all About and is it Necessary?

Christians say that the way to heaven is through Jesus and they say that you have to accept Jesus as your personal savior.

I believe in Jesus but It’s always seemed wrong to me somehow that I could go straight to heaven and make Jesus suffer for what I’ve done wrong.

I feel like, if someone has to suffer for the ‘sins’ I’ve done then it should be me.

I feel like I could never be happy or ‘in heaven’ if I didn’t feel I deserved to be there.

This question has played on my mind for a while especially thinking I may have to suffer when I die.

I would also like to point out that not too long ago I woke up in the morning and clearly heard a voice tell me “God will forgive you if you forgive others”

I would really like to hear people opinions, Thank you.

Asked by Gemma

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153 Comments
  1. Hello Gemma,

    Were you very angry with someone at the time you heard those words?

    One thing the angels taught me is that they teach us at a level we can understand and accept .. or just above what our minds think we can grasp and we ‘grow’ into the information, or not.

    I know its hard, sometimes, to accept that someone will sacrifice themselves for others, or just for you, but it happens during times of war .. when one person throws themselves on a grenade to protect all the others (there are many other examples of this too). Yes, its horrible, but it is a truly loving act. I admit I wonder about the motives of the person who does it, having gone through the ‘hero – must save everyone’ phase, but with the understanding that I have of heaven, what they did will have true benefits for them once they cross over, and into other lives.

    Jesus was crucified. There’s proof of that now. If you believe he was a man, then he was hung up as a leader, military or spiritual, of a band of renegades that was upsetting the Roman rule, and the Jewish ‘church’ .. if you believe he was the son of God, Jesus Christ, then his sacrifice created a wave of energy throughout the world, not just in the little land of Israel, that changed the energy structure of a prison that bound the souls of humanity to earth. That might not be written in the bible, but it IS written that the ‘saints’ (wise men) of up to 1000 years in the past, were suddenly seen walking among the people after the resurrection. Since they had been dead for that long or less, of course, they had to be spirits .. and where were they before that? I have my theories.

    So we have this lovely freedom, and direct access to God (who Jesus Christ IS according to the Christians), but .. where does the church fit in? It doesn’t. So suddenly we can only get to God through Jesus, and to Jesus only through Christianity – and so there suddenly is only ‘one’ true religion – religion that quickly absorbs or adopts a lot of the beliefs of religions that have gone before it as it spreads across the world? Why did it need to do that if it was the only ‘true’ religion?

    When deciding whether you deserve to be in heaven or not, I would start by asking Jesus, when you get there, how he felt about what happened. You might find that his was a loving gesture so that people like you and me ‘could’ get there, and feel safe there, with God. I agree that we should repay everyone for the harm that we do to them – that’s why we have karma. I know its a Hindu word, but it is what it is .. cause and effect. For everything that I do, for good or evil, there is an opposite repercussion for me. So when I am good, I receive goodness, and when I am not good I receive a balancing slap, or worse. It might not be in this lifetime, but it will be in others.

    Removing the concept of reincarnation, or multiple lifetimes, from the Bible meant that we only had ONE life to get it right, so we HAD to follow the rules .. and who laid down the rules .. the Church. And reincarnation was one of the teachings of many philosophers both before and after Jesus, and Jesus said, among other things, “Elijah is himself again” when he spoke of John the Baptist. (Matt 17:12-13)

    Jesus taught us that God loves us, and that in forgiving others God is forgiving us. Personally I don’t believe God judges and therefore there is no need for him to forgive anyone, but we, as humans feel we need forgiveness and so He does, for us.

    Because we have free will we have the right to choose our behaviour, and whether we go to heaven or not. From my experience, we don’t go to hell, hell is a home for demons and humans who try to venture there never stay long. We belong in heaven, first in healing, and then in peace – until boredom sets in and we want to make this journey all over again. :-)

    Something to think about,
    Love & Peace
    Ama Nazra

    • God I can waffle sometimes. The question was ‘what is salvation all about and is it necessary .. the answer .. in brief … salvation is what happened when Jesus died and the Christ energy freed the human spirit (collective), as I said above. It is not some future event. Was it necessary? Yes, in my opinion. My belief is that humanity was under the thumb of the devil before the Christ energy set us all free. Now it can only harass the majority, and oppress and possess a few souls .. it no longer has direct control over God’s creations – a control we gave it, in our struggle to learn about ourselves, and in seeking the usual, instead of seeking God. Well .. guess what .. we live and learn, and hopefully – do not repeat our mistakes. I can understand when the church says to stay away from the occult .. because we can get lost in there, there is so much that people do not understand about the entities they ‘think’ are friendly. Best to be very cautious in all our contact with anything that offers ‘everything’ with no strings attached .. there are always strings .. and sometimes they are ropes that bind, or chains that we cannot seem to break without an act of Grace.

      Love & Peace
      Ama

  2. Hi Gemma

    Great question:

    Q1. Christians say that the way to heaven is through Jesus and they say that you have to accept Jesus as your personal savior.

    A That is a way to Heaven FOR CHRISTIANS. But the words “HAVE TO” are just pure arrogance on the part of the doctrine. Non-christians go to Heaven too. There are many roads to God.

    Q2. I believe in Jesus but It�s always seemed wrong to me somehow that I could go straight to heaven and make Jesus suffer for what I�ve done wrong.

    A. I could never get into the Christian’s head with this one either. To me, Jesus’ cruxifiction was more about making sure he was remembered (through a violent act) than anything else, of a supernatural nature or otherwise. If he had just wandered off into the desert and preached until he died of old age, would he have made such an impact? Christians made a martyr of him – that is all.

    �God will forgive you if you forgive others�

    This is true – treat others as you would like to be treated and you will be pleasing in God’s sight.

    AJ
    x

  3. Gemma,
    Why do we need to go to heaven? Christians say that �only those that accept Christ will enter through the gates into heaven.” Well that doesn�t seem fair. If I don believe in Christ, that shouldn�t be the deciding factor on whether I can enjoy eternal bliss. A.J. said “non-Christian could enter into heaven.” Heaven is a Christian teaching. I�m not going to ask a mechanic, �how do I build this addition to my house.” It�s a different trade altogether. Same with religion. I won�t ask a non-Christian about Christianity. It will feel like opinion, rather than an actual teaching. Hope you didn�t get offended by that, A.J. My point or theory of this is, maybe there is no heaven. Maybe this is our one life to live, and should take advantage of it.
    Maybe heaven was just a story taught, to get one’s follows to act appropriately. If you think about it, it�s a lot less confusing on who’s able to go or who isn’t able to enter in to heaven. Why can�t we be a good person just to be a good person. Why do we need to get a reward. Don�t let that be your reason of doing an act of kindness. It wouldn�t be sincere. Hey, if I�m wrong about the whole heaven thing, I�m sure your higher power would still take in consideration of your works of kindness when judging you. It�s a win, win.
    I think we shouldn�t let the whole � getting in to heaven� consume us. We have enough problems as it is today. Enjoy your life now. Also whether that was an Angel, or a little cricket named �Your Conscience.� Don�t hold grudges. It�s not healthy. Forgive, forgive and forgive. Hope I didn�t ramble on.

    • Hi Ted Heard

      I’m never offended by other peoples opinions, nor their beliefs for that matter.

      You said: “Heaven is a Christian teaching.” I would add Judaic and Islamic on to that. All three religions originate from the same scriptures and teachings. Its only the ‘evolution’ of each individual religion that seperates them – not the basic concept.

      “Heaven”, to me, is a name given to describe the God source. When we ‘go to heaven’ we are actually going back to be with God. Call it Heaven, or call it healing; the promised land or know it by any other name, makes no difference in my view. When our bodies die, our spirit (or soul, or whatever you want to call it) is free to return home if it wants to.

      I agree that if we concentrate on the here and now, and conduct ourselves in as godly a way as we can (being kind, forgiving, giving etc etc etc) then that is what makes us a better person – not what religion we follow.

      AJ
      x

      • AJ,

        I agree that we should live a moral life but you know as well as anyone thst none of us as human beings can be good enough to go to Heaven by ourr own goodness. Being good for your reasons is useless.when it comes to our eternity. We must know God personally and follow Christ 2 commandments, to love God with all your heart and to love your neighbor as yourself. Do these 2 things and everything else will follow. Again we always hear people say a loving God would not send a good person to hell. Here is just one example from the Bible that explains.
        Hebrews 10: 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think those deserve to be punished who have trampled the Son of God underfoot, who have treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who have insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, �It is mine to avenge; I will repay,�[d] and again, �The Lord will judge his people.�[e] 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

        • Hi JK

          �� but you know as well as anyone� .�

          Actually, NO! I DO NOT know �as well as anyone�. (I presume when you say �anyone� you mean Christians!?).

          �� none of us as human beings can be good enough to go to Heaven by ourr own goodness. Being good for your reasons is useless.when it comes to our eternity.�

          That statement is your interpretation, not mine. Please do not presume to know what my beliefs are, JK. Do not put words into my mouth. And please do not assume that I take the Christian stance on this matter, because I do not.

          When are Christian�s like you going to realise that you guys do not have a monopoly on God?

          �Again we always hear people say a loving God would not send a good person to hell. Here is just one example from the Bible that explains. Hebrews 10: 28�

          Unlike you, I do not believe the Bible to be entirely accurate and truthful when it comes to God�s Word �.. because it was:
          A) written by men,
          B) manipulated by man to suit man�s own selfish desires, and
          C) a lot of the Holy Scriptures (the more controversial ones) have been omitted from the Christian Bible.

          Why (C)? Because if we were to have �access� to those, then we might actually start getting a better understanding of God through our hearts, rather than from MAN’S written word. Words which, for the most part, suppress the masses, rather than fulfil our spiritual selves.

          I could never understand the concept of a �devout� Christian (IRA for example) – who kills or maims another with bombs, guns, knives or torture – being allowed to enter Heaven, whilst a humanitarian – devoting their time entirely to others, with no time left to attend a religious gathering just to make a PUBLIC STATEMENT – are not be allowed to enter Heaven. This concept simply does not make sense to me. The former is an evil human being, whilst that latter actually lives their lives in the spirit of God. So why, do you think, God would turn those away who have shown mercy and kindness all their lives? Why would these people end up in hell?

          I really would love to understand the mechanic�s of your beliefs on this matter � not just scripture quoting please, but what YOUR explanation is, from the heart.

          AJ

          • It’s a pleasure to read your comments AJ. Thank you.

            JK, I would also like to know the ‘why’ of what you believe .. apart from “its written in the Book”. Blind faith .. faith without questioning .. can be sooo destructive! Even Jesus didn’t do that. Think of Gethsemane (the garden where Jesus was arrested just before the end, for those who don’t know) .. He sat there among his sleeping disciples questioning God about his fate. He would not have done that if he feared God, or if he had no choice in what was about to happen to him .. and he did know.

            Love & Peace
            Ama

          • AJ, I agree with you :)

          • AJ,

            You right about Christianity like you know it backwards and forwards. You make staements of how untrue and unfair Christianity is. You write books that have pieces of Christianity yet you don’t know much about it. My take is that you do know what it is all about and that God did not make multple ways to Heaven and you yourself know what it takes. I think someone in some church years agao during your younger life did something to you or you preceived that they did something that turned you against Christianity. I have tried many ways to prove the Bible wrong, I can’t. I could find generalities but nothing I could hang my hat on and I will not just hang my hat on generalities or hoping something is true. My relationship with Jehovah, Yaweh God is through Jesus Christ, it is His goodness and holiness that allows Christians to go to Heaven all we have to do is ask Him and we can take on His righteousness where we have none and never will without Him. I here people say oh it is unfair because I choose not to believe in Jesus. People choose not to seek Him or try to know Him. That is where the fault comes in. As I have said before, before I was faced with the choice to love God through what Christ did for all of us, I did not even know there was a choice to be made. When I chose Him then I knew it had to be a choice for Him. Everyone that has heard of Jesus Christ has to make that choice. No one forces people to choose Jesus. If one does not want to choose then one rejects the way to God. I am not telling you that you must believe. You can believe what you want and I will not harass you. Just to be safe, just in case you are wrong, I would say that any unbeliever should tread very cautiously at advising people about Christianity when you are not a Christian, nor do you want to be one. If a non-believer is nuetral that is one thing but if you are blatantly out there telling people what you don’t believe about Christianity and that the Bible is not true and they believe you and do not seek God through Christ Jesus, you could very well be bringing something down on yourself. What I am saying is, if you do not believe in Christianity then take the Physicians Hypochratic Oath and do no harm.

          • Hi JK

            Well – at least you’ve read my book in order to comment on it. Thanks!

            Oh! hang on … but my book isn’t about Christianity. It’s about the power and majesty of God over evil and how He works in the most mysterious ways.

            Merry Christmas to you

            AJ
            x

          • You do realize JK, that people can speak of God without it having anything to do with Christianity. That’s the problem here, a good portion of Christians (not all mind you) think they own God, that he is theirs and theirs alone, and that no other religion or spirituality has a right to speak of him. We don’t all believe the same things JK. To put it bluntly, your take on religion is one I find incredibly frightening. I would never want to live my life in fear of my creator. I wouldn’t want to live my life believing I am unworthy of God’s love, or that from the moment of birth, I was a sinner. It makes me feel debased just thinking about it. Regardless though, I respect your opinion. The only thing I would ask of you is that you respect the opinion of everyone else here, rather than taking offense when their personal beliefs about God and the afterlife don’t match up exactly to yours. It doesn’t negate anything your saying. It’s just a different perspective. Don’t be scared of it…reading it doesn’t mean you’re evil. It just means your open-minded.

    • I like your comment too, Ted. :-)

      Although I am a believer in reincarnation, having so many memories of previous lives, and my time between lives, I think we should always dedicate our energy to doing the best we can, and being the best we can, in each and every lifetime we have here on planet Home .. or any other planet a person might end up spending time on – given that I know a few people who have had lives on Pleiades. I don’t believe that ‘paying back karma later’ should be treated as an excuse for bad behaviour in the here and now.

      And I absolutely agree that we should be good for the sake of goodness, and not because we are either fearful of judgment, or are expecting some great prize at the end of it all. Although I call myself Christian, the more I dig into ‘Christianity’ the further I pull away. I may end up like AJ, believing truly in God, and the Holy Spirit/Christ energy and having no time for Christian beliefs. It’s very sad, because there are some good teachings in there, once you dig past the almost 2000 years of accumulated opinions.

      Love & Peace
      Ama

      • As am I, Ama. Reincarnation makes a lot of sense when you really think about it. How could we possibly really truly, and fully, learn about this beautiful world in one lifetime? It doesn’t seem possible. I also find the thought of reincarnation to be comforting. I like my lessons, I want to soak up everything I can and this life just doesn’t feel long enough to achieve that :)

        • I good soak is a wonderful thing. LOL And we have so much to learn Diana. We can’t possibly know enough about love in one lifetime, if that lifetime is full of pain and fear. No, we need time to experiences all of God’s wonders.

          Great answer, Diana. Thank you.

          Love & Peace
          Ama

  4. Gemma,

    I highly suggest that you talk with a Christian Pastor or even someone you know that is a Christian if you want to learn about what Christ really did for all of us. As you can tell, on a website like this one you are going to encounter many different interpretations and that is exactly what these post above are. They are anti-Chistian views from folks that for one reason or another do not think that the Bible is true (or not all of it) and that Jesus was not who He says that He is. It sounds all logical until you actually talk to a Christian. I am not going to get into an argument on this sight, that is why I suggest that if you are really interested in learning who Jesus is and what He has done for us and still does for us, just go to Church or ask around your friends, it will not be hard to find a true believer. When I read through there post, as a Christian, what I see is a mix of all types of beliefs and religions. We are told in the Bible that God is not a God of confusion. The evil that is always around us is beant on confusing every person that does not know Jesus in a way that will keep them from ever knowing Him. As I said earlier, I am a Christian and I know Jesus Christ personally and His Holy Spirit lives in me because I asked Him to. Now when I read the Bible it makes perfect sense. When I here a sermon it makes perfect sense. The difference with being a Christian is that we really do not have to have a “religion”. Religion is a word that the enemy uses to try and lump being a true believer in with all other religions. Christianity is a daily loving relationship with God made available to all of us through His death on the cross. Do you have to go to church to be a Believer? No, but you would miss out on a lot. Are there any funny rituals or ceremonies that I have to go through to be a Christian? Absolutely not, however, being baptized is a way that we outwardly show our inward change once we accept Jesus’ sacrifice to God as our own. I know there are lots of questions but this is not the best place to get true Biblical answers. Christ died for us because God loved us enough to let that happen. Is CHristianity exclusive? No, God loves everyone and Jesus died and rose again for us all. God gave us all free will to choose to love Him and follow Him or not, but there are consequences to not choosing Him and that is what Heaven and Hell is all about. Some might say “If He is a loving God how could He send good people to hell”? The answer is that God never sends anyone to hell people choose not to love Him and everyone has that choice. I chose to love Him because He first loved me. Get your phone book out and find a good Christian church, go there and check it out. Grab a Bible and read it. It was the best thing, I ever did and I am not alone there are close to 2 billion other believers walking around that you can ask.

    • Hi JK, lovely to see you again. :-) I just love the way you spark my thoughts – here’s a few:

      AJ definitely says she’s not Christian, Ted I’m not sure about, but I definitely am Christian, according to the ‘Free Dictionary’ online – “Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.” And what did Jesus teach, Love God, Love other people as yourself, and follow the Laws .. and then along came Paul, and the Laws suddenly didn’t apply? Because Jesus said he came to uphold the laws, and to fulfil them .. but he didn’t say they would stop after he was dead. No, that was Paul. So who are Christians following now?

      Let’s replace the word ‘religion’ with ‘belief system’ .. because you don’t like the word even though the translation is – Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. (same dictionary). That defines God for me, and the powers would be Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, according to Christian teachings .. so there’s no problem there.

      I know you don’t want to get into an argument, but you make for such great discussions! Thank you. Where was I …

      When I think of the number of Christians I have talked to over the years … and the confusion of their thoughts .. where they all decide theirs is the ONLY right belief system regardless of facts to the contrary – and they say they are Christian? But, which bit of Christianity is perfect, JK, because I will ascribe to that bit very happily, as long as there are no contradictions in Their unerring Word of God (Bible), the way there are in the one you and I read.

      http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_book.html BTW, the writer of the site is also discussing the Quran and the Mormon Bible, so he’s not just having a go at the Christians.

      I absolutely agree that God is not a God of confusion .. no, it takes a human being to do that ..

      I’m glad the Bible makes perfect sense to you, and that your Pastor’s interpretation of the Word also makes perfect sense. Have you dipped into that contradiction page, because I’ve posted the link a couple of times now? I would love you to explain some of them to me. I would love to have a perfect ‘Word’ (book) from God. I would even become a missionary and talk to people about reading it. But if I tried it with the current book, I would be a hypocrit.

      The ‘not go to Church’ bit, that wasn’t what they taught me at Sunday School – Methodist, or at the Anglican church when I was confirmed at 29, or in the Catholic church when I dropped in occasionally, or any of the other sects that I have come across over the years, usually knocking on my front door – so it might well just be an opinion, but didn’t God say we have to assemble together, and usually where his ‘high priest’ is (Hebrew 10:19-25)? Outside is good with me, I love trees, and Jesus did that, but he also went to the Jewish Synagogue. Hmm….

      Hang on a second, you don’t have to be baptised, confirmed, go to confession, get married, buried .. the Catholics do all of that – skipping confession, so do the Anglican. I was baptised, by my parents choice, and I think its a real blessing .. both my kids are baptised. Then, you don’t believe what John the Baptist was doing has any point? And true, water baptism, and oil if you are Greek Orthodox, is probably not as beneficial as a good dose of the Holy Spirit (the disciples at Pentecost), but, hey .. no problem .. its only in the Bible.

      Christ died for us ‘because God let it happen’. Now, I agree Jesus died on the cross for all of us .. I have no doubts about that at all .. but I do remember a conversation he had with Abba where he answered ‘ your will not mine’ .. but up until then I think he had the right to change his mind. Otherwise why have the conversation? Why struggle with it, which he was doing up until then? And doesn’t thinking that Jesus had no right to refuse, take away from the incredibly sacrifice that he CHOSE to make for us?

      Is Christianity exclusive? Yes, I believe Jesus died for all of us, and God sent him to earth for all of us .. except that Christianity teaches that a person is not ‘saved’ unless we BELIEVE in Him and his dying for all of us .. so sorry, Christianity does exclude those people from salvation who DO NOT BELIEVE that it happened. Thank God, God doesn’t. And us sending ourselves to hell because we don’t believe in God or Jesus? Why would we do that? No, someone else has to be doing the sending, because normal healthy people do not choose to punish themselves for their belief systems .. they only do that is they have a psychiatric condition.

      And I am one of the 2 billion other believers walking around .. and, sadly .. or maybe luckily … they don’t all believe the way you believe .. otherwise many of them are going to be broken hearted when they don’t get to heaven .. given that Revelation does specify that only 144,000 (that’s .0000139% (rounded up)) Christians are going to heaven. LOL Oh, it does say there are an indeterminate number of others .. but some people think they will be Jews. God I love that book! :-)

      So, as I said before, thank you JK .. I really love your posts. :-)

      Love & Peace
      Ama

  5. Gemma, I meant to mention that if you are interested in all things spiritual and you would like to read about someone who tried it all in the spiritual world and finally found God through Jesus go to http://www.staciespielman.com/index.htm. Stacie has been on both sides and has a lot of knowledge about all things spiritual, as much as anyone can in my opinion. Check it out.

    • Thanks for the link JK, I’m going to check it out.

      Love & Peace
      Ama

  6. Hi Ama, please do, Stacie is very accessable, I think you would enjoy talking with each other.

  7. JK. that website is just one womans opinion that everything other than the bible is evil.

    How many people have walked this earth thinking they are right and everyone else is wrong? and usually they are the ones who are most corrupt. Think of kings, queens, leaders and churches that think they are acting for God and their actions have led to the deaths and suffering of thousands.
    People thinking they are right has caused wars. Look at the Christians who were the crusaders, they listened to their pope and actually believed they would go straight to heaven for slaughtering Muslims.
    And now look at the sects of extreme Islam who believe the same thing by killing the Christians for revenge.
    Look at centuries gone by, Christians turn on Christians, You were executed for being a ‘heretic’ just for believing in another dominion.
    And even today we have these Baptist church protesters, even here in Australia saying everybody is going to hell. How hateful is that? and judgmental!

    Religion I believe was put in place by God to bring good and to show people how to live their life and it’s brought the complete opposite.

    You know, I just think it’s not important what you believe, I think it’s whats in your heart and what you do and say that matters to God. Instead of just loving Jesus, love everyone like Jesus does.

    One great thing I’ve read from people who have had the experience of dying and coming back to life, is that they have said God put all religions in place for those people because not one religion can work for all, we are all at different levels spiritually and need different things in our lives in order to get the best from us.

    • “Instead of just loving Jesus, love everyone like Jesus does.”

      What a great statement, Gemma!

      AJ
      x

      • Yes, its a lovely statement, Gemma. I should have said that too.

        Jesus loved everyone. If you believe the Bible, he spoke to everyone about God’s love for them .. didn’t matter who they were. I didn’t notice him applying the thumbscrews when he told them about heaven .. just said ‘follow me’.

        Interesting, for me anyway, the song Any Dream will do just popped into my mind .. haven’t heard it for years .. the words go

        “May I return, to the beginning .. the Light is dimming, and the dream is too ..
        the world and I .. we are still waiting, still hesitating .. any dream with do”.

        Joseph was a Biblical prophet for God, and yes, the words are a modern invention, and from a silly musical .. but also kind of appropriate right now, the dream the Christians had of taking over the world is fading rapidly .. perhaps God will find a way through the Muslim people teachings .. thought they also have their persecutors. Christian fear the Muslim Jihad, just as the Muslims had to fear, and probably still have to fear, Christian Crusadors. God help us all.

        Love & Peace
        Ama

      • Gemma, I stole your quote yesterday when the opportunity arose. :) I was having someone talk about the importance of showing your gratitude and love for Jesus and I said – (well, you know what I said..lol) “Instead of just loving Jesus, love everyone like Jesus does.”

        They looked a bit confused, then annoyed and finally back to confused – gave me just enough time to get out of there….lol.

        :D

    • This is a beautiful sentiment, Gemma…and something about it really resonates the truth.

  8. It’s not just the Baptists here in Oz, Gemma, some spiritualist churches think all Christians are deluded, and that their ‘religion’ (spiritualism) is also the only ‘true one’. And they try and emotionally blackmail people into being trained as mediums, just because they have that gift .. it happened to my daughter, right in front of my eyes. Given she’s 25 I allowed my daughter to have her own say, and she was very polite, but .. we deeply offended the man when we refused to join his ‘army’.

    As for the webpage JK gave us. I expected the lady to be like that. I have found that some people, when they convert from one belief system to another, can get a little intense about the whole thing. :-)

    I’m in Melbourne, BTW, nice to see another Aussie on the list, if I have not already said there. :-)

    Love & Peace
    Ama

  9. Ama,
    I was taken to a Spiritualist church as a kid, it wasn’t until I was in my teens that I realized I didn’t like going because it was all about channeling who knows what to get messages that never made any sense.
    My grandparents and mother got into it because of a death in the family and they just wanted comfort by getting a message from the departed soul.
    I was raised in the belief that all spirits are good and only visit you for a good reason, so from the age of 12 when I was seeing ghosts around me I thought that was fine. I thought I had a special power or something.
    And a big problem with Spiritualism too is that people (including my mother) rely and talk to ‘guides’ more than God.
    Let me tell you that my mum hasn’t exactly been led to the best actions because of these ‘guides’.
    I used to not believe in God, or Jesus, or angels or demons, or good or evil or meaning or purpose, I just believed in ‘spirits’. That’s it.
    I’ve been on my own spiritual discovery the past few years and I’ve learnt to just believe in what I’ve always known in my heart and not what others tell me.
    I believe in God and I feel I have a purpose like all people on Earth do and that makes me content with my existence.

    By the way Ama I live just out of Sydney, I have spoken to you before, about a year ago I posted here. :)

    • Drat, Gemma, I guess there’s just you and me then, because I know its been a while since I talked to the ‘other’ person .. LOL Oh where are the other interesting ozzies .. I know they exist .. I meet them in the street sometimes. :-)

      Contentment is such a gift! I thrive on my sense of Peace .. and can get a little crabby when I bounce myself out of it. And you are right, life is a huge process of learning, from one level to another, the wonder of this human world.

      Come back sooner, next time, if you find something of interest among the multitudes of subjects we all touch on. :-)

      Love & Peace
      Ama

  10. That woman was deomonized and Jesus Christ pulled her out of the pit of distruction, she was deceived and for many years thought that she was right until she realized that she was being deceived. It is my sincere hope and prayer that everyone’s story ends up with a wonderful loving relationship with God through Christ Jesus. Remember, He is a jealous God when it comes to His children and He said there is no other God before Him. He is Jehovathe Heavenly Father of Jesus, and all of His children-believers. The only way to understand it is throuh the discernment of His Holy Spirit. Other than that the Gospel will be defiled and made confusing and as I have stated before Yaweh is not a God of confusion nor legalism nor pluralism. I understand if you don’t believe but that does not negate the truth and God is Truth and God is Love, and it does not negate the fact that we will all stand before Him in judgement sooner rather than later, the difference will be whether Jesus says at that judgement “he or she is Mine” or “I never knew you”, that is why He gave us Jesus so that His truth and love would be in us to. My whole point here is that this does not happen by osmosis or by epiphany, you must ask and accept His sacrifice. I amm not a religious fanatic, or someone opperating on blind faith. I know God personally through my relationship with Jesus Christ. God tells me that Jesus is the only way.

    • Hi JK

      Someone told me the other day that there is this chap, in Canada(?) I think, whom is being hailed as the ‘second coming’ – ie Jesus back in the flesh. The man himself, denies he is Jesus reincarnated.

      What is your take on this? I personally don’t think Jesus (the man) will return in the flesh. The next great teacher will be of a different ‘character’ and therefore unrecognisable as Jesus (the man) .

      AJ
      x

      • That’s more than we can say for the Queensland guy .. he’s saying he Is Jesus ..?

        Twins anyone? Afterall, God did call itself ‘we’ in the Bible? :-)

        Love & Peace
        Ama

    • JK, I love what you write! :-) Really! I love a good puzzle. :-)

      What do you mean it doesn’t happen by epiphany .. look at Saul/Paul, from persecutor to persecuted in one blinding flash. (Paul was blind for 3 days afterwards, for those who don’t know). If that wasn’t an epiphany what is? You think Saul was asking God to change his mind? He had so much power as he was ..! He hated the Christians before God came and got him. Hmm.. when did Jesus stop coming into our hearts and changing us? And why pick a true villain? I haven’t read anywhere that God demanded that Saul choose to be saved .. we actually don’t know, literally, ‘what’ happened to him in that moment.

      Free dictionary:
      1. a festival
      2.A revelatory manifestation of a divine being.
      3. a. A sudden manifestation of the essence or meaning of something.
      b. A comprehension or perception of reality by means of a sudden intuitive realization

      Love & Peace
      Ama

  11. I found this online and I think it does a good job of explaining what my beliefs are concerning salvation and why it is needed. I did not go to any of the links on this page, so I am not saying I agree with anything else associated with this page.

    http://gospelway.com/salvation/need_forgiveness.php

    Hope this helps answer your question.

    Sarah

  12. The dude in canada is not my Jesus, and does not God tell us the same thing in His Word, that many false christs would come as a sign of His return. It is deception to those who will not believe. This person that claims to be a christ is no suprise to me or other real believers because of what God has already told us. There would not only be false christ, but false gospels. He told all believers that we would be persecuted for His name sake and that satan would convince others to defile and twist the gospel so that others would be lost to satan, boy that sure is true. That is the point that I am trying to make. Without the discerning of the Holy Spirit in us, we cannot see the truth that God has for us. We do not see the warnings. So if you cannot see them the way God meant them to be understood, then you just join the other side and start talking about horus and borus and some mentaly ill and most likely possessed dude in Canada. I am not outraged about this, if there were 20 false christ standing in line behind them because what they are doing is just strengthening my faith in the real Christ because He told us that it was coming. How does a false christ convince you that Jesus Christ is not Who He says He is? Because some looney said he was Jesus, that happens every year and is nothing but deception for nonbelievers and I cannot believe as smart as you are that you would even mention false christs as some evidence the He is not real. He told me He was real and everything that He has told and promised me and all other believers, He has delivered on and more. How could I not come on here and tell others abot Him. I don’t think that you can come up with anything that God has not already told His children will happe as a sign or His second coming. You must believe in His first coming.

  13. Why don’t we ask this question, do you want to be wheat or tares? This is what Jesus said Himself comparing wheat to His believers and tares to those who care not to believe in one of His parablestgom Matthew: “30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn”. It is that simple. WIll you be tares or wheat, it is up to every individual to decide.

    • Aha .. Matthew 13:24-30 and 36-43. The wheat of the field and the weeds. I am not sure what Bible you are using, JK, but sometimes I need a dictionary. LOL

      Am I wheat or weed .. I will let God decide. He also created the weeds, a hearty and vigorous group of plants that irritates people when they take over the land the people want to use to plant their wheat .. but even wheat can poison people if it is infected by germs. And we can eat weeds .. dandelions are incredibly good for people in herbal medicine, among multitudes of other plants people consider weeds. I was only just watching a ‘wild feast’ type of cooking program on the tv last week, and they had all sorts of hedgerow salads. I think it all depends on a person’s perspective.

      Love & Peace
      Ama

  14. I am a Christian first and foremost. I don’t believe in forcing people to believe what I do.I do agree with JK. You need to seek out a good man of God and get yourself a Bible. With that being said… It is up to us to divide the truth by studying our Bibles. All of what I believe has scripture to back it up. Yes I do believe the Bible to be true from beginning to end. It was written by men but inspired by God. Psalm 68:11 The Lord gave the word: great was the company of those that published it. Revelation 1:1 ….which God gave unto him…..and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: (this is in regards to Revelation) Everyone in the world could read the same verse and everyone could get a different meaning from it. The way to study your Bible is to pray before and ask God for his help to understand it. Don’t just take one verse on a subject study out all verses to fully understand what God is trying to tell us. Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be on precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: Not all Bibles are alike either, the King James 1611 version is the closest to the original that we can read( unless you read Hebrew) it is the seventh translation. In Psalm 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Everyone knows John 3:16 but read on to 3:17…For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. Also John 6:38-39 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. Yes Jesus came unto his own people and they crucified him. Yes it was horrific. Yes it was in my place, your place, because we could not pay for our sins, or live under the law. Without him we would have been forever separated from God. He is a merciful God and He does forgive. Jesus has the victory, He is no longer on that cross. He sits at the right hand of His Father in heaven. I have learned so much in a short time when I actually studied and sought God. The scripture is God’s holy word, I take it 100%. God has blessed myself and my family. I wish all of you the best in studying the Bible and finding His truths.

  15. I would also like to say I agree with Ama on some points as well. That’s another beauty…He gave us free will. Just think really….would you rather have someone love you because they wanted to or because you make them. :) You all are great! Keep the discussions going. I learn something new everyday!

  16. Gemma

    1.) You are correct. The only way a person can pray to God and obtain eternal life is through Jesus Christ, and there is no other way.

    John 10:9 – I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

    John 14:6 – Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me

    If you refuse to believe that Jesus is the Christ and obey him, Jesus plainly stated that you will die in your sins.

    John 8:24 – I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

    Hebrews 5:9 – And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    2.)Gemma, you do not go straight to heaven when you die. You sleep in the grave until God commands you to wake up. This is called resurrection. No man goes directly to heaven after they die. The bible states that King David is still in his grave waiting for the resurrection.

    I CORINTHINIANS 15:12 �14 – Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then CHRIST is not risen; and if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching in vain, and your FAITH is also vain.

    I CORINTHINIANS 15:16-17 � For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: and if Christ be not raised, your faith is VAIN; ye are yet in your sins.

    ACTS 24:15 � And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there be a RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD, both of the just and unju ACTS 2:29 & 34 – Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand.

    3.) Gemma suffering alone cannot take away the sins of mankind. You can suffer all you want because only the precious blood Jesus shed can wash away sins. The bible states without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin.

    Hebrews 9:22 – And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission

    Hebrews 9:14 – How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

    Matthew 26:28 – For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

    God manifested in the form of Jesus Christ for the specific purpose of shedding his blood that ALL men may receive eternal life.

    Only a perfect and sinless Jesus could have taken away the sins of the world and that is why he manifested in human form.

    John 1:29 – The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world

    I TIMOTHTY 3:16 � And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of the angels, preached unto the gentiles, Believed on in the world, received up into glory.

    4. Believe me Gemma, no man deserves God�s love or mercy. It is only through Jesus that we obtain grace.

    Isaiah 64:6 – But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

    5. Gemma, what suffering are you referring to after death? The bible teaches that dead knows nothing and there is NO consciousness in death. This simply means Gemma that when you die, you sleep until the resurrection that is when God wakes you. There is no suffering after death. The dead does not know what is going on in the land of the living.

    PSALMS 146:4 – His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

    PSALMS 88:5 � Free among the dead, LIKE THE SLAIN THAT LIE IN THE GRAVE, whom thou rememberest no more; and they are cut off from thy hands.

    PSALMS 6:5 � FOR IN DEATH THERE IS NO REMEMBRANCE OF THEE: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

    ECCLESIASTES 9:10 – Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for THERE IS NO WORK, NOR DEVICE, NOR KNOWLEDGE, NOR WISDOM, IN THE GRAVE, WHIETHER THOU GOEST.

    ECCLESIASTES 9:5-6 � For the living know that they shall die: But THE DEAD KNOW NOT ANYTHING, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Also there love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in any thing that is done under the sun.

    • If we sleep in a grave until God tells us its time to wake up…what happens if we were cremated?

      • Christians are not supposed to be cremated, Diana. LOL Nor embalmed the way the Egyptians were, but preservation of the body (replacing blood with preserving fluid) is a common practise today. Maybe that will help?

        Love & Peace
        Ama

        • Eh, the body is a vessel. We only really need it for a short time.

          I don’t think the manner in which it is ‘disposed’ of makes an ounce of difference.

          What about people who die in fires? Surely if the resurrection takes place they won’t be left behind (now thinking of Kirk Cameron..lol)because a horrible accident befell them.

          The spirit is the only thing that lives on. Our bodies are like disposable plates. :)

          • Exactly!

          • Right, but also a gift from God to be cherished and protected.

            Love & Peace,
            Ama

          • Absolutely and we shouldn’t take our health for granted or bring illness upon ourselves by having horribly unhealthy lifestyles. We do after all have to hang out in them for a while! :)

        • I did not know that! So if a Christian does in fact get cremated…are they just SOOL?

          • No, their spirits go to God just like the rest of us. LOL

            Soil, Diana? Or what is SOOL?

            Love & Peace
            Ama

          • Some would think that they are…but some thing being encased in a tomb also keeps God from collecting ya.

            I bet ya God has it all worked out and whether you’re in a vault, tomb, reduced to ashes or whatever the case the way your body is dealt with doesn’t bother God at all.

            Personally, I find the incorruptible saints to be far, far more strange of a practice that any of the rest!

          • Depends on why their bodies are incorruptible .. some of them its to do with the chemicals in the soil, and its not uncommon in certain countries .. which is where we get the legends of vampires from. The ones in glass cases .. sometimes, if the case is broken, the body just dissolves away. I am not a scientist so have no idea why they remain whole in the first place?

            Love & Peace
            Ama

          • I believe the body being incorruptible ‘proves’ the sainthood of the corpse in question. But I simply do not buy into it at all. My thoughts are if God wanted to prove someone’s sainthood then their bodies would stay absolutely the same, have no need for preservation whether it’s through an airtight encasement or anything else and wouldn’t need wax coverings to keep the skin from turning dark…turning dark is the natural process and altering the process has nothing to do with God’s supernatural power.

            The information I’ve ran across points to just what you’ve said – the bodies have been mummified from their environment and some even suggest actual embalming has taken place; which is clearly against the rules! :)

            I had no idea this is where legends of vampires come from! How fascinating. I just love how knowledge from one things extends and brings new knowledge of another!

    • Nonsense – as a living being, we all have a direct link to ‘God – Creator of All’, we do not need an intermediary, however, if you choose an intermediary and because we are all connected, God knows and sees all things – even our most secret thoughts.

      • As a child I was taught two conflicting things when it came to prayer. 1, you MUST pray in the name of Jesus or your prayers are not heard or 2, God knows your intent and so long as your heart is in the right place God hears your prayers. Mind you, that is if you’ve already said the sinner’s prayer as God doesn’t listen to sinners. I think that’s rubbish – God listens to sinners too. ;)

        What I believe; despite the twisted views on religion around me is God loves us. As long as we’re communicating, our Creator isn’t bothered with how it’s done. I speak to God like a friend and I’ve no doubt I’m heard. No intercession necessary unless you prefer it that way. God pretty much says, “Eh, whatever floats your boat!” :)

        • LOL I agree. I think God is big enough to encompass how we individually prayer, and recognises himself in all our hearts. After all, he put himself there.

          Love & Peace
          Ama

  17. Gemma,

    You are correct. The bible states that Jesus is the only way to God. He is in fact our mediator and intercessor before the throne of God.

    John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

    John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me

    Gemma, the fact is that you do NOT go straight to heaven when you die. Both Judaism and Christianity teach that the dead sleep in the grave until the resurrection. The disciples taught that King David was still in the grave waiting for the resurrection. They were not in heaven.

    DANIEL 12:2 � And many of them that SLEEP IN THE DUST OF THE EARTH shall awake to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt

    ACTS 2:29 & 34 – Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand.

    Gemma unfortunately suffering does not make an atonement for sins. From the very beginning God told the Israelites that it was blood that made an atonement for sin. This is why Israel sacrificed animals. The animals made an atonement for their sins.

    Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul

    Leviticus 16:6 And Aaron shall offer his bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make an atonement for himself, and for his house.

    I should also bring to your attention that after Adam and Eve SINNED, God killed the first animals and used the skins to make clothing for Adam and Eve. When God killed the first animals the blood of the animals made an atonement for their sins of Adam and Eve.

    Genesis 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

    The killing of rams, sheep and bulls was never really acceptable to God. This why is was manifested.

    Isaiah 1:11 – To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

    So the perfect and spotless Jesus, the lamb of God manifested in human form and he offered himself as the FINAL sacrifice. All the sins of the world were placed upon Jesus soldier.

    John 1:29 – The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

    Jesus sacrifice is so powerful that No man needs to kill animals anymore. They only need to call on God in Jesus name and God will answer you because you asked him in Jesus name.

    Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

    Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

    Gemma believe me NO man deserves to be in heaven considering our filthy nature. We are not clean or pure in God�s sight. The Lord views the stars as being impure. We don�t deserve God�s love or grace because of the evil we do, but through Jesus we have redemption and victory over our sinful nature.

    Job 25:4-5 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.

    Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

    Gemma, you will NOT suffer AFTER you die. The bible teaches that there is NO consciousness in death. This means that you will NOT be aware of anything. The dead knows nothing. They sleep in the dust until God call them forth to rise from the grave.

    EPHESIANS 5:14 – Wherefore he saith, AWAKE THOU THAT SLEEPEST, and ARISE FROM THE DEAD, and Christ shall give thee light.

    DANIEL 12:2 � And many of them that SLEEP IN THE DUST OF THE EARTH shall awake to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

    ECCLESIASTES 9:10 – Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for THERE IS NO WORK, NOR DEVICE, NOR KNOWLEDGE, NOR WISDOM, IN THE GRAVE, WHIETHER THOU GOEST.

    ECCLESIASTES 9:5-6 � For the living know that they shall die: But THE DEAD KNOW NOT ANYTHING, neither have they any more a reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Also there love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in any thing that is done under the sun.P

    PSALMS 146:4 – His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

    PSALMS 88:5 � Free among the dead, LIKE THE SLAIN THAT LIE IN THE GRAVE, whom thou rememberest no more; and they are cut off from thy hands.

    PSALMS 6:5 � FOR IN DEATH THERE IS NO REMEMBRANCE OF THEE: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

    • We are all filthy in nature? Why? Does this tie into the concept of original sin? I don’t buy it. How can we be sinners the moment we are born into this world? How can an infant, only seconds old, be considered a sinner? What sins could they have possibly committed?

      • Original sin .. we are all tainted with it, if we are Christian. :-) Have to have something to be ‘saved’ from, Diana, or the whole premise of Salvation falls apart.

        Take the metaphysics out of religion and they had to find another explantion.

        Love & Peace
        Ama

        • But what about this age of accountability … if that’s the correct term even?

          It seems sin isn’t really an issue until we can at least know we’re sinning, right?

          By the way, I really don’t think we’re responsible for the sins of others. I think we have enough to deal with when it comes to our own personal bag of sins. Where’s the fairness in such things?

          And I’m not sure we need to be saved from anything until we create problems in life.

          • The age of accountability seems to have vanished with the onset of the ME ME ME mindset.

            According to the Bible, sin is landed on us at birth, so it doesn’t matter whether we know what we did, or what Adam and Eve did, many thousands of years ago. Nor does it matter what we believe. We are responsible. The people of Israel were going to be punished until the 700th generation, which made Paul’s idea of disconnecting all the Christians from their roots in the Jewish faith, a very good one in a way. But .. doesn’t that disconnect Christianity from Adam and Eve and well? I wonder how many generations have passed since God decided on that punishment. LOL

            I think we are responsible for our every thought, feeling and action. Others might help us create them, but we have the right, and the will, to say no when something is wrong. And if we help others to ‘sin’ then we ‘are’ responsible for their actions too. Karma doesn’t separate it into ‘what you did’ and ‘what I did’. The outcome of an action has ramifications for everyone involved in that action. So if a person punishes their kids harshly and cruely, and the child grows up to do the same to their children .. the karma hits both of us (is that an interpretation of saying that God punishes people to the 3rd/4th/5th generation?) That is why forgiveness is so important. It breaks the chain that links people together through pain, fear and anger.

            Love & Peace
            Ama

          • Accountability means a lot. Not minding the rules of accountability is something Pagans believe will get you into tons of trouble.

            If I talk someone into robbing a bank with me and someone gets murdered in the process am I not as responsible as the person who pulled the trigger…or even more responsible? Mind you, I’m not robbing banks with or without involving others, but you get the point.

            And Ama, it’s an excellent point that you make on parenting and just how far reaching our responsibilities go. I’ve seen children doing things taught to them by their parents (and taught to their parents by their grandparents) and no one seems to say who is truly responsible. God knows and I believe when it comes time to pay up the one who started such things will pay the most heavily – and should, in my opinion.

        • That’s my issue with Christianity. Everything leads back to us being “bad”, no matter what we do. We’re dirty, we’re sinners, we’re undeserving of God’s love. Horse puckey. That concept was created by self hating individuals so they could feel better about themselves by making sure EVERYONE was degraded, even the most innocent of humans…babies! There is nothing bad about a baby.

          • If you think about an abusive relationship and how the abuse continues we find a common factor – the abuser makes the person the are abusing feel like they deserve being treated so badly. The abused is degraded and unworthy of being treated well – no self worth at all. Sounds a bit like some people’s version of religion, doesn’t it.

          • If God directly creates the soul of man, then we have to assume that God is creating something that is inherently sinful. But, doesn’t it say somewhere in the bible if I’m not mistaken that God is incapable of creating anything that isn’t good and perfect? And how can we inherit sin? Didn’t Jesus say that sin does not originate from outside the soul but, within? So how can we have possibly inherited sin? We’re not inheriting a part of our parent’s soul..so therefore there sin is not ours. That contradiction alone is enough for me to think that the whole concept of original sin is merely something created by man.

  18. I am not trying to step on anyone’s toes here. I truly respect all religions and faiths. I understand that people’s beliefs are something held very sacred to them and to offend anyone purposely is not in my nature.

    Having stated I don’t mean to offend – I hope I don’t…

    Christianity is not the only religion that has the story of the prophecy of a savior and that savior being crucified or sacrificed to complete the prophecies foretold. (In Hinduism the entire story of Jesus is told, but under a different deities name, Krishna – including the virgin birth, wise men and all! http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-hidden-story-of-jesus/)

    Now, that does not mean I do not believe in Jesus, that he was indeed crucified or that this crucifixion was not necessary for Christians. Without it, Christianity wouldn’t even exist.

    What I personally feel is that all this WAS needed for Christianity and the followers of Christ. But other faiths also needed a similar messiah. Is one above the others? I don’t believe so. Rather, it was also needed for the faith of others, but in a way that was personal to them.

    Since my earliest thoughts of religion, I’ve known innately that what you call God, what you call your faith and how your practice or worship is only about making God personal to you. God doesn’t care what you call him or her. God isn’t so petty as us humans. God just wants us to love each other the way that he loves us.

    Just as I’ve known God ins’t concerned with our labels, I’ve also known that hell was a fabrication of mankind. Just like we tell our children Santa won’t bring what they want for Christmas/Yule (or whatever you celebrate), it’s a means to control. History pretty much proves this even. It was, after all, introduced into The Bible by changes throughout the years. When looking at the most original Bible available, you don’t find anything of what Christians think of hell today.

    It’s never made sense as to why our creator would damn us to such a horrid place for the smallest of things. Hitler gets the same punishment as someone who works on Sundays? No way. God loves us. God is love. Such a damnation would involve hate and God has nothing to do with negativity.

  19. And what about people living in remote villages who have never heard of Jesus? Never seen a Bible?

    Does their inability to learn of Christianity damn them to hell?

    They cannot accept what they do not know to exist.

    No one could possibly convince me that children (or adults) who aren’t exposed to Christianity are damned. No way.

    Besides, if you were raised Pagan, you would still be Pagan. If you were raised Hindu, you�d still be Hindu. Just like if you were raised Christian, you�re probably still Christian! Your parents passed down their beliefs to you more than likely. Those beliefs just happened to be Christian ones.

    • I’ve asked this question myself, many times. The “absolutes” of the bible leave no room for questions such as this, and it’s incredibly frustrating.

      I was raised in a Catholic household. I do not identify as Catholic, or any Christian denomination for that matter. I suppose you could say that I’m agnostic, though, I don’t question God’s existence, merely the tenets of most religions. I believe that if you dissected major religions and patched them back together to make one universal religion that things would begin to make much more sense.

      Does that make sense? LOL. I’m confusing myself. It’s hard to put my thoughts into words that are articulate enough for others’ to understand without them being in my head with me :)

      • I don’t know how I missed this Diana, sorry!

        You make perfect sense and write very articulately!

        I agree with you, the foundations of so many faiths are basically the same. If we were to slap it all together and make a universal faith sandwich we’d have some pretty simple ingredients! What would they be? I’m thinking love being the main thing, the golden rule would follow and tolerance being the third – or is it even necessary if we truly love?

        Sounds pretty fantastic, doesn’t it? And those simple things come from all faiths – that is the foundations. Now, why does religion start so many wars if so much of it is agreed upon? I think that is more a human screw-up than one ounce to do with God.

        • Hi Diana and Robyn,

          Give most religions a shake guys and the fundamentals are the same. Love one another. Honour those who deserve it. Be good to each other. Show respect. Do not harm. Be kind. How do you start a war if you practise any of them?

          No, we get lost in fear and anger and have to ‘prove’ our worth. I say, if we must, let two men, or women, meet in the middle of a very big field and hit each other until one falls down. It’s barbaric, but then so is fear and anger.

          Just my opinion,
          Love & Peace
          Ama

          • We could certainly let our leaders duke it out vs. sending men and women to fight for made up causes. However, our criteria for electing these leaders would change – I want a buff guy or gal who can kick butt. LOL

          • Can we please have brains as well as cute? It takes intelligence to know when to say ‘no’.

            Love & Peace
            Ama LOL

  20. I can summarize the issues in this post fairly quickly. Why do some people and “the world” as a whole dislike Christianity and the Bible? Why do some people on the paranormal websites try to keep Christianity from being part of the conversation? One word. Demystification! Demystification of the occult. These people are addicted to the thrill of the unknown, the mystery of what we cannot see!! There is a huge television and internet audiance that is hungry for more paranormal and lots of money to be made. The Bible tells us exactly where human spirits go when people die, we know where demons come from and their origination, what they are, how much power they have, how deceptive they are. We know what aliens really are, and bigfoot, and any other entity that appears and disappears before eyewitnesses We know who their boss is and how he does what he does and he hates all people nearly as much as God loves us. We also know who wins the war, the outcome was won actually when Jesus died on a cross and was raised again from the dead by our Heavenly Father. We know, without doubt the outcome. We also know that the deceived will be speraated from God eternally whether good or bad. How do we know all this? Because God made it all, built the whole system and had man write it down in a book that tells us exactly how things work and what we need to do to be on the right side in the end, His side. Why can’t everyone get that out of the Bible? Glad you asked. If you do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, you will not understand what God has for you in His Word. If you are not a believer, satan snatches the words from you as soon as you read them. Google the parable of the sewer and you may understsnd. There is no fun in Christianity for the Paranormal Addict and “the world”, the ruler of the world, satan likes it that way. Our whole existence is about our free will that God Himself gave us. It is a battle between His love for us and our own sinfulness and carnal nature. Will we seek Him enough to find Him or will we allow our will to drag us down to the level of debaseness that the ruler of this world has made for us. There in no mystery in the occult, ghosts, ufos, aliens and the like, this stuff is not new. They are nothing more than demonic manifestations aimed at deceiving and confusing people into not seeking the truth that God gives us through a relationship with Jesus Christ. It is all there in the Bible folks. every last question is answered in one way or the other, that is no fun, no mystery. Seek the truth and not lies that people have convinced themselves of. Make your own decision, but make sure that you seek God earnestly through prayer and reading the Bible. Put as much effort into it as you did your Junior Science class and God will begin to reveal Himself to you.

    • Hi JK,

      Lovely to see you popping in for your dose of the occult. :-)

      I really wish I ‘knew’, with such certainty, what things like bigfoot, and aliens, really are. Mind you, while I’ve never seen bigfoot actually mentioned in the bible, aren’t aliens written about, as a sign of God?

      One thought though – you might consider changing the word ‘know’ to ‘believe’ .. because you don’t know, anymore than the rest of us do .. otherwise you would ‘be’ God .. because he’s the only one who truly ‘knows’ everything about this world, and all the rest of the multiverse that he created.

      Robyn, JK is one of my favourite fundamentalists around here. He always makes me think. :-)

      Love & Peace
      Ama

      • Ama, I do see why he’s a favorite of yours! I’m intrigued myself!