Science or Faith?

Doing some web surfing came up on an article of Stephen Hawking. A brilliant individual, this Stephen Hawking is. As I was reading this article though, I came to this passage: His 2010 book The Grand Design and interviews with the Telegraph and the Channel 4 documentary Genius of Britain, clarify that he does “not believe in a personal God”. Hawking writes, “The question is: is the way the universe began chosen by God for reasons we can’t understand, or was it determined by a law of science? I believe the second.” He adds, “Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing.”

It was interesting to read this; because of the fact there are many religions teaching some many things. Which one is right? Is there any prove to their teachings? Science does a lot more explaining and proves, than the Bible. It’s in union everywhere. What can’t be explaining isn’t excused by simply saying, “You must have faith?” Another point that caught my attention was the line that stated: Hawking regarded the concept of Heaven as a myth, stating that there is “no heaven or afterlife” and that such a notion was a “fairy story for people afraid of the dark.

I belief most people believe there life is dull, repetitious. Trying to find meaning in their life, they imagine or believe in something or anything bigger than themselves. Being part of this grant purpose fills their void.

On the other hand, Mr. Hawking might have a grudged against the man up-stairs. One of the smartest, if not “The Smartest Man” on Earth, and he doesn’t have the ability to enjoy life to the fullest. Maybe he thinks the best way to get back at God is to discredit him for his creation.

It’s just something I was thinking about. What do you’ll think?

Asked by Ted Heard

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26 Comments
  1. god says :” we describe every thing based on science “

    • Excuse me I must use simple past :

      god say : ” we described everything based on science “

  2. Hi Ted Heard

    I believe that to find the true nature of God, Maths, Science and Faith must each be viewed as a part of the jigsaw puzzle that makes up the whole picture and not opposing things with no relevance to each other.

    There are a lot of things in physics which theoretical physicists still can not prove, rather they make assumptions based on the knowledge they have to hand to date. Even some of Einstein’s theories have now been proven to be wrong, thanks to the test of time.

    I am always fascinated by the Golden Section (Divine Proportion) which is a specific formula which can be found in plants, animals, shells, planets, the universe, us!! In fact, this ‘code’ is everywhere (including DNA) and is often used for art, architecture, music and mysticism as well as in science.

    For anyone interested, the golden ratio of Phi is: ? = 1.618033988…
    The formula of Phi is 1 + squ. root 5 divided by 2

    So, who calculated Phi in the first place? And why use it as the building blocks for EVERYTHING that exists? Can this surly be put down purly to random atoms and particles? Or, was it actually a formula created of something of intelligence?

    A great subject to post on here – thanks Ted

    AJ
    x

  3. Hello Ted, great question!

    The only time I find my life meaningless and without purpose is when I decide to be in a cranky mood and want to sulk. LOL

    I like Stephen Hawkins writings, and if his beliefs make him happy, no problem. At least he’s not trying to force them on me.

    Gravity might have created the universe, but what created gravity? And as Einstein’s theories are proved to be incorrect, the fun is replacing them with ‘new’ wisdom, which will, perhaps, end up going on the scrapheap too, sometime in the future. It shows that humanity is striving to learn about its multiverse.

    I am a believer in God, for personal reasons .. mostly to do with my own experiences, and I love the puzzle of why people believe what they do about their ‘gods’ all of them, and I love a good debate. If nothing, it makes me laugh.

    So, which religion is right – the one that you choose that makes you a good person, a loving person, someone who respects everyone, God (whichever God) included, and one that is not based in fear. If that is science, for you, very good – my son is a believer in science ‘and a creator energy’, non-specific. Hopefully someday, you (and he) will add to the knowledge base of all or any of those subjects.

    BTW, I have no fear of the dark, only that which lives in it .. if I can’t see it with my eyes. LOL That doesn’t include humans. Darkness can mean many things, you know, ignorance being one of them.

    Love & Peace
    Ama

    • Ama , when we talk about god our purpose is who that has created universe and all thing , among ,animals, plants and humans no multiple god that has been made by some ancient folks like wind god , water god , sun god , or similar such imagines. what they said are not real in fact and are not proper about we can’t put that imaginary tales in theology theme and if some theologians has done such it is wrong .Our purpose of god is one who is creator of all science ( physic , chemistry , math and other ) no an imaginary and fictitious being like god of water or wind or other superstitions by name god. god says : if other creator existed , collapsed the heaven and earth ” . Anyway god is the most grand scientist and sage and must not be mentioned beside the fictionally being.

      respectfully yours

      • Thanks Manss, I agree there is only one ‘God’, but .. other religions do not agree with our opinion.

        I am not a missionary. I have not come to convert anyone to the way I think, but I will say what I believe, because that was what was asked of us here. I studied theology, and comparative religions, because I wanted to understand the power of the ‘one’ God in everyone’s lives. If someone wants to believe in more than one, its fine with me. They can talk to God about it after they die. It’s between them and God.

        I’m sorry if I have offend you somehow, but I did not mix theology with mythology here on this page, so I don’t know what you are actually talking about?

        Love & Peace
        Ama

        • Ama

          I am like a eaglet that hasn’t enough feather and then want fly to height or like a kid that he has not learned walking well then he want to run …..and that is the story of my English ….LOL … sometime when I am writing a comment I suppose I have improved in English during this few month very well and can discuss with Ama but I forget Ama is a professional in English but an online dictionary is my walking stick for reading and writing ….HaHaHaHa ….
          a few week ago in a comment I used ” my hubby ” phrase instead ” my hobby” A.J had supposed I am a female I replied her I am a man .she wondered and wrote to me : but you use hubby and it mean husband but I didn’t believe and thought she does jest me !! …next week i observed both words in the dictionary “hobby ” and “hubby” so understood what A.J had told about my mistake about using hubby word had been a real theme ……LOL… may I haven’t understood your purpose too , due to my good English ! so I excuse and also excuse me if I interfered in your comment to another author. Meanwhile you can say and write what you wish and it is not may responsibility

          • Hi Manns

            I would not jest with you over your English – you are very brave to come on here and post your ideas and beleifs in a language which is not your own. I admit, it may take a couple of reads through and some ‘word replacement’ to get the proper meaning of what you wish to convey, but I usually get there in the end ……………… unless it’s the word ‘hubby’, of course – LOL!

            AJ
            x

          • Thank you for your graceful and encouraging reply A.J

            I continue this way and perhaps gradually get better but till that time you must tolerate me
            even if I use hubby instead of hobby

            A shiny day

          • I’m sorry Manss, its my fault too. I was still twitchy over the fundamentalist person who had visited us, so I probably sounded a little sharp. It’s hard to tell how another person will interpret what we write to each other, and we can all misunderstand.

            Keep flapping, friend eagle, one day I’ll learn to understand what you write more clearly, in the meantime I’ll ask more questions if I don’t understand what you mean.

            Love & Peace
            Ama

        • “Keep flapping, friend eagle ” ….HaHaHaHa…..

          Thank you Ama

      • Hi Manns

        “no an imaginary and fictitious being like god of water or wind or other superstitions ”

        The way I see it, God created all things, including the elements. Interestingly, the Elements have been linked to the Archangels – for example, Lord Raphael protects air, Lord Uriel protects earth, Lord Gabriel protects water. This does not mean that Lord Raphael, Lord Uriel and Lord Gabriel are considered to be god’s in their own right, it is just they represent those specific elements. Elements which God created.

        It is funny how, particularly older religions, use the term god to represent each thing but really, they are demi-gods and are all ruled over by a supreme god – in most every religion that has ever been ‘invented’. So, in that context, it is not so different from the Archangels!!?

        AJ
        x

        • And Michael represents fire …

          .. or if we step them out of the ‘God’ idea, that word expressing the human concept of a superior being – which probably demanded humans ‘fear and venerate’ it, we could consider that these entities might have been fallen angels, trying to impress humans and get their love and attention (meaning their energy). They also are ruled over by a Supreme being (well, not so supreme, given its ‘Satan’.) And Satan does crave the veneration of humanity, and if it can’t have that, it will have our fear instead – a pattern its demons follow. Energy is energy, after all.

          Perhaps, wisely, that is where the FEAR GOD message actually originated?

          Love & Peace
          Ama

        • A.J
          what I wrote to Ama wasn’t about formal and official religions. This religions are Islam- christian – Jewish ( Zionism no, they move strictly opposite to god , Moses, peace and humanity ). I talked about sects that believe in some made up and imaginary figures by name god. for example some sects that worshiped or worship somethings as sun,stars, snake , even (sorrily ) cow or believe each one of this material has a separate and independent creator. My purpose is not to offence or convict these sects’ follower but as we are discussing about absolute fact and real god no abouta a name without real root and basis Therefore we have to refuse and rebut these superstitions to appear the light of truth. These rudimentary opinion are like gloomy clouds that have covered the truth sun and such opinions are not rare when atheists , pagans and materialists added to this list.
          I agree with you wholly that every elements and phenomenon of nature whether in earth
          or sky have a caretaker and functionary of angels.

          be joyful

  4. While Stephen Hawking’s intelligence is hardly debatable, I find him to be a bit of cynic…understandably so, I suppose. He just comes across as a bit too dismissive of anything that cannot be broken down in a scientific formula. I wish he would realize that while he is disabled, he’s also been given an enormous gift, specifically his great intelligence. But, there is a difference between being scientifically aware, and spiritually aware. I think oftentimes, people have a bit of difficulty marrying the two, especially when one cannot explain the other. Perhaps it’s because of environmental conditioning…who really knows. One thing I can say is, I am sure Mr. Hawking will be more than willing to admit he was wrong after this life is over…and I’m sure God will be more than willing to accept his apology . I also believe he’ll be happily surprised to know that there WERE indeed things even HE wasn’t capable of explaining :)

    • I agree Diana. And just think of the discussions they will have when he gets Home again. :-)

      Love & Peace
      Ama

  5. I’d say the best approach would be to strike a balance between science and faith, investigating both the creation and the creator with wonder. So from that point of view, Mr Hawking is not doing much better than a dogmatic theologian.

    • I’d agree with your approach too. We have to keep an open mind. Reality might not actually be anything like what we think we perceive. LOL

      Love & Peace
      Ama

  6. Hello,
    How are all you doing? Reading through ya’ll comments here; questions began to pop up in my head. I guess you can say I’m playing devil’s advocate here.
    For one thing, with all the different religions and beliefs there must have been a beginning. If there is a beginning, what happen to it that made it change and split into different sects?
    If it was man that changed these teaching to fit his, I guess desires. Why did “God” allow it to happen? Please, explain your answers with facts. Not opinions.
    I’m sure that most of you belief in the after-life. The continuation of one’s soul. Why it is so many people are still scared of dying, if there is a beautiful world awaiting them once they die?
    If there is a hell, why is it if you’re a “bad” person on earth, you go to hell? I thought that wages sin pays is death. Once you die, your sins are wiped away, right? Then everybody goes to heaven.
    A lot of things are confusing when you think about it right? One can argue, “You need to look into the deeper things of God to understand.”
    With that statement made, not one bible scholar is in unison on what the bible really teaches. Really what’s the difference between mythology and Christianity if you really think about it?
    In science, there are a lot of theories, which backs up ideas. “Why things are.” Like one of ya’ll say, “sometimes these theories are proven wrong.” Well, scientists provide why it’s wrong and give evidence. Which make sense. It’s not forced down your throat to believe or else “you’re going to hell.”
    This is why many people don’t bother with religion. I’m sure, if most of you look outside the box and take it from the point of view of somebody who isn’t religious. It kinda makes sense. I guess that’s where the faith part jumps in. I don’t know,.. How do you all feel on the matter.
    Hope you all don’t feel I’m slamin you. Just questions I’ve wondered.
    T. Heard

    • This is my view.Religions are not all religion ! those are divided to two kind :
      1- religions which have been sent by god .
      2- opinions that is made up by some philosophers or chief or ideologers of folks and nations and we called those religion mistakenly. There are 124 thousands prophets that god has sent them guiding for human from era until now but five of that prophets are upper and perfecter than others which called ” messenger ” Because they have been sent along a official book from god. Therefore it must be noticed some opinions are not godly at all and have made up by some malicious or nonfactual mind person to call people to themselves. I don’t want mention some of those but only point to some African tribes that had lived in African woods and established some imaginary opinions and their race now are following their grandfathers opinion so. Prophets and messengers in addition to logical message from god were able show some miracle of gods sign and power to people ( doings upon the natural and scientific occurrences. for example they were able change the basic essence of a thing .change a rock into gold or a lumber into a boa or restoration a deceased to life ) .So every opinion is not a religion.

  7. Hi Ted,

    I like ‘devil’s advocates’ .. its fun to be poked and have to answer questions. :-)

    You said: For one thing, with all the different religions and beliefs there must have been a beginning. If there is a beginning, what happen to it that made it change and split into different sects?

    Humans happened. Humans like to think things through, explain things in ways that ‘feel’ right to them, and sometimes they don’t agree, or if they do, each person adds a little to the knowledge, for right or wrong. God’s Book developed from all those thoughts and theories.

    The beginning of the Christian religion was after Jesus ‘died’ on the cross. Paul and James picked up His ‘sword’ (the one Jesus never carried, but we now call it the Word) and started putting their own opinions into the messages. I wrote a bit of a rant about that on my new blog. The gist of it was about whether Christians are still ‘under the Laws (Jewish)’ or not, according to the Bible .. because of Jesus’ words ‘until heaven and earth pass away’. Well, Revelation says they are, 2 Peter says they are, but Paul said they aren’t – because according to Rev and 2 Peter, we are still waiting for heaven and earth to pass away. Paul, on the other hand, seems to completely ignore that bit. I might be wrong. He was a very opinionated man, loud and rude, all the books I read about him during my course said much the same thing .. and so his message was the loudest heard, and sadly, it suited the mindset of the people following him .. who wanted Jesus to be anything but ordinary .. and so many of the teachings in the NT are influenced by what he ‘believed’ – not ‘facts’, Ted, because Paul never met Jesus in person, nor ever spoke to him while he was living. Yes, he had a vision of the man, that blinded him and knocked him out for a few days, but it didn’t change his nature .. he persecuted the Christians before he converted, and he had the same attitude to non-Christians after he did. The other thing you will notice, if you study your NT and then go and look at the Mesopotamian religion, the Babylonians, Summerians .. and so many others .. is where the Christian ‘borrowed’ much of their ‘facts’. Jesus (among other great people) was not born on the 25th December, that is actually the celebration of Yule (also known as ‘sun returns’ (son returns??). The debate of his birth date gives us either March or September, could be February, I’ve read of many dates, and people’s reasons why they believe in them .. over the years, which has nothing to do with subsuming pagan religions – and the church did, it forced people to become Christian.

    And then we have the Reformation .. where churches split in all sorts of different directions, depending on which ‘church father’ they based their faith in. And these events are all ‘facts’ based on ‘beliefs’ .. and now Jesus is supposed to live here in Australia, in Queensland. He was on the news the other night. People believe in him as Jesus ..? Who knows.

    You: “If it was man that changed these teaching to fit his, I guess desires. Why did “God” allow it to happen?

    I cannot speak for God, so you only have my opinion. God loves us unconditionally, part of that love is to allow us to choose our own destiny. It’s in the bible that he gave us the ability, and the choice, to follow Him – the punishment side of things .. if we don’t .. well, I’ve stated my opinion on that too many times. You can either believe it or not. But .. I base my opinion on observation of this world. My question has to be – if God doesn’t love us unconditionally why does he allow 1) other religions who do not follow him 2) people to murder, torture or defame each other 3) why can I, and you, and everyone, take the Lord’s name in vain … among a million other nasty ways we break the commandments .. and yet I have not seen anyone smited in all my life, no instant death in front of me from lightning for lying etc. So where is he when that happens, and what about when someone needs rescuing from something nasty, is He there? Perhaps not, but, is He right there through our angels – because there are stories of angels helping people in every society on the planet. Help is Love, in most cases, Ted. Hate destroys. I don’t see God’s hate among the people, only the human’s capacity to react from fear. And when rescue doesn’t happen, is it because we, the humans, chose to have whatever happen at the time? But that’s another question.

    You: Please, explain your answers with facts. Not opinions.”

    The ‘facts’ of the changes in the Bible? Where would you like me to start? How about one word changed changing the meaning of a sentence? That could have been a translation mistake, or a deliberate one .. Brother Self and I were having just that sort of discussion on another page of this site – discussing whether ‘man is God’ –
    //www.trueghosttales.com/questionsandanswers/the-fallen-redeemed/?replytocom=4123 right at the end (just scroll to the end). There are a so many other examples, including lists of the contradictions in the ‘message’ of the bible, from book to book. They are on the internet and not hard to find. I listed one URL here not so long ago.

    You: Why it is so many people are still scared of dying, if there is a beautiful world awaiting them once they die?

    Simple answer – because we have been taught to 1) fear God 2) fear judgment after we die. 3) That heaven doesn’t exist .. that its the great ‘unknown’ and ‘unknowing’. 4) that who we ‘are’ disappears after we die, and some people cannot cope with thinking they become ‘nothing’. 5) Because we don’t remember what happens when we die, only some of us, like me, actually do – although we are labelled liars by the churches, who use hell as a form of control over the minds of believers. I could probably think of a few more, but maybe some other folks will add to the list. It’s enough to begin with.

    You: If there is a hell, why is it if you’re a “bad” person on earth, you go to hell? I thought that wages sin pays is death. Once you die, your sins are wiped away, right? Then everybody goes to heaven.

    Good question. If you believe in christianity you have to believe in hell because they teach it exists as a place of punishment for humans, but then so is purgatory, if you are Catholic. Personally, I think everything needs a ‘home’ and hell is a place where demons go to rest. And no, sins are not wiped out by dying, if you are Christian you have to believe in Jesus Christ as redeemer .. if you believe that, and are sorry for what you have done, when you get to heaven God might forgive you. You might have to spend time in purgatory. But I am not Catholic though I am Christian, and I believe in karma .. which explains that we are responsible for everything we do, or don’t do when we should have, and we have to balance bad behaviour with good. And I agree that everyone goes to heaven, otherwise karma would make no sense at all, to me anyway.

    You: A lot of things are confusing when you think about it right? One can argue, “You need to look into the deeper things of God to understand.”

    And how do we look deeper, but not deciding that is only one RIGHT way to God, but look for God everywhere, in living examples, not just in ancient manuscripts.

    You: With that statement made, not one bible scholar is in unison on what the bible really teaches. Really what’s the difference between mythology and Christianity if you really think about it?

    Oh no, I know a few scholars that all agree on various interpretations of what God might or might not have said, just look at the fundamentalists. They have their ‘scholars’ too. I agree that the Bible might be all mythology, so I treat it as a book of wisdom, confusion, mythology and fact .. the facts begin with what we can prove, like Jesus existing as a man, and various scientific explanations for things like the flood, and then being able to place the Exodus into history now. I love it. :-)

    You: In science, there are a lot of theories, which backs up ideas. “Why things are.” Like one of ya’ll say, “sometimes these theories are proven wrong.” Well, scientists provide why it’s wrong and give evidence. Which make sense. It’s not forced down your throat to believe or else “you’re going to hell.”

    It’s from ideas that theories arise, and then the scientists check them to see if they can become ‘facts’, and then we find out, years after these ‘facts’ are thought to be ‘truths’ that the theories were wrong to start with, the research was wrong, and the facts are not facts at all. Was it Einstein we were discussing somewhere the other day? Or Newton? I’ve forgotten.

    You: This is why many people don’t bother with religion. I’m sure, if most of you look outside the box and take it from the point of view of somebody who isn’t religious. It kinda makes sense. I guess that’s where the faith part jumps in. I don’t know,.. How do you all feel on the matter.

    Fear is also why some people stay away from religion, and I can understand that too. Who would want to think that God can decide to hate someone just because we said no, when we should have said yes? They also don’t bother, Ted, because it takes energy and commitment to follow a set of guidelines that someone else gave you on how to live your life, if you don’t want to do one of three of them. Humans can be very lazy. But that is just my opinion.

    Great questions.
    Love & Peace
    Ama

    • Ana,
      Very impressive. You make so valid points. Still some of it sounds like a fairytale to me, but I respect your beliefs. Thank you for sharing with me.
      Sincerely
      T. Heard

      • Thank you Ted. :-) Are you going to share your opinions of your questions with us?

        And my name is A M A.

        Love & Peace
        Ama

      • Life is a bit of a fairy tale, at least in my opinion. There’s so much magic in the world…and it can’t be explained by science. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. I think that there are some things we just aren’t meant to understand while we’re living. It’s these unanswered questions that force us to dig deep and find our faith. Some find it in religion, others find it in science, I found mine within my own life experiences. Can I prove without a doubt that God exists? No, at least not to someone else. I myself, have seen the proof, and I feel it in my heart every day…no amount of scientific fact could convince me otherwise.

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