Is God Without Religion Possible?

Hello everyone!

I was wondering what everyone’s thoughts are on the possibility of finding God even if you do not subscribe to any particular religion? I would love to hear everyone’s answers!

For the record, I respect those who are from different religions, and would like to ask that everyone, please be respectful of one another as we discuss this topic! (thanks everyone!)

Asked by LunaTerra

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61 Comments
  1. yes you can. in my opinion, God isnt about religion. its about the heart and the mind being on one accord, and the individual devoting him/her to God completely.

  2. Hi Luna,

    Religion – meaning thereof LOL “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

    I ‘live’ God without one defining religion, but I do miss gathering with others .. so I go to the local Anglican church once in a while, just to soak up the atmosphere of folks who do believe you can only find God in a church. It is their smiling faces I look for. The grumpy, sad ones I just want to hug. The sermons bug me though. One truly memorable one was sooo old testament .. women were evil because eve gave adam an apple … apple??? Apples didn’t grow in the holy land in biblical times. And I did wonder, for a long time afterwards, how the minister’s wife felt about his avid condemnation?

    I also sometimes go to the local Spiritualist church, which is odd, because there is very little ‘God’ in their churches, but lots of spirts or ghosts. The mediums are often not very good, but I think their hearts are in the right place .. and sometimes they hit it right on the head .. and connect to people’s relatives, and then its fun to watch the receiver light up with love, or anger, from within. Amazing!

    God is out in the orchard too, under the trees, in the quiet places, where you can sit and feel nature fill you up with good energy. That’s when your heart becomes light and you let go of the worries of the world, and just appreciate all that God has provided for us as we take this journey with him/her. (At the present moment they better provide a snorkle LOL).

    God is in the house here, when we are laughing and being loving, or deep in discussion, or watching over us as we sleep. God is here when we are grieving – giving us comfort and surety of life eternal, or when we are angry .. reminding us that forgiveness is the only path to Love.

    God is the energy of the waves of the internet that connect us, the writers/readers together, so that we can exchange views, and debate beliefs .. because we all learn and grow from the experience, no matter how much of a challenge it might seem at the time.

    For some people, the only way to ‘God’ is through religious practices, like prayer, fasting, observing specific rituals on specific days, and reading various bibles, or books of wisdom. If this helps them to be loving, kind, thoughful, God-filled, individuals .. then its perfect for them. We are human and need structures around us, and our beliefs and practises are structures, which support our growth .. one way or another.

    Yes, I believe we can have God without an organised, accepted religion, because, in the end we are creating our own personal ‘religion’ (set of beliefs and practises). It might not agree with others, but as long as it agrees with God – and that this shows in our lives by our happiness and our ‘good works’, then I don’t think God is going to judge me and send me to hell. Not today anyway. LOL

    Love & Peace
    Ama

  3. And just to add a tiny bit of why I say this, let me quote the Wisdom of Solomon 11:24-26 and 12:1-2 from the Aprocrypha.

    “11 For you love all things that exist, and detest none of the things that you have made, for you would not have made anything if you had hated it. How would anything have endured if you had not willed it? Or how would anything not called forth by you have been preserved? You spare all things, for they are yours, O Lord, you who love the living.” ” 12 For your immortal spirit is in all things, therefore you correct little by little those who tespass, and your remind and warn them of the things through which they sin, so that they be freed from wickeness and put their trust in you, O Lord.”

    Love & Peace
    Ama

  4. Also .. God existed ‘before’ religion, and it will exist after we have all returned .. either to God, or dust .. depending on what you believe, so yes. God exists without religion.

    Love & Peace
    Ama

    • Granted there wasn’t Christians in the Old Testament. There were the Israelites that were God’s people. God gave them 10 Laws to follow. These laws were for Israel’s benefit. Now Jesus came, expounded on the laws, how to worship and what God accepts. To define Religion it’s, a group of people that have the same beliefs. Israelites had a “religion. “ They believed in the same teaching. Unfortunately, they lack a lot of faith while in the wilderness. But that’s a whole different topic. Still they were in unison. Christians are people who follow Christ teaching. That stated, I think people can belief in God and not belong to a religion. Look outside, the trees and mountains. All the beautiful colors. That’s evidence of God. Like I said before, religion is just a group of people who share a same belief.
      What if you see that some of Catholic beliefs aren’t in harmony with the bible? “Hey, this isn’t right.” Now you don’t believe in unison with that religion. Doesn’t mean you can’t believe in God, and worship him in the way the bible explains is appropriate.
      Not to stir up anything, but my beliefs are that there is a correct way to worship God. Not saying there’s a right & wrong religion. Maybe there is, I don’t know everything. What I mean is Worship though. Its actions, thinking & understanding. Each person through their own bible studying, meditating knows what’s acceptable to God.

  5. Absolutely, LunaTerra

    God is everywhere, in all things.

    Jesus didn’t need a church nor religion – he went and stood on the Mount and spoke the Word Of God to any that wanted to listen, much to the annoyance of the Pharasee’s because Jesus was not preaching the Judaic religion.

    AJ
    x

    • My thoughts, exactly AJ!!! :D God has touched you through your experiences and wanted you to be here to tell us all about it! I believe that you are another one of God’s mesanger’s and the book you wrote is actually a Testiment to Him. (mInd you, I still need to finish the book, but, I think there was definate purpose to you writing it!) May you have the best of luck with that book!! (So that I can tell everyone that I know a best selling author!!! LOL!! “wink!” “Wink!!”) HUGS for you, AJ!!!

      • LOL! Luna

        You’re name is right at the top of the guest “to the best author party” list … but you may have to wait quite a long while – hahahaha!!

        Thanks for the well wishes. Strangely more Christians than anyone else seem to read it and they all say one thing “It is testament to God’s love”. Actually, they say two things, but I can’t repeat the other thing on here – too rude … hahahaha!!

        AJ
        x

  6. “God” in my view, is each individuals interpretation of what exists within themselves.

    Those feelings of finding God come from a part of the brain that reacts when thinking about faith. Feeling loved and accepted, devout, hate, etc. It already exists, its just a matter of using it. Religion is often based on rights and wrongs we know from our conscience, and remarkable stories that inspire us, to make us want to believe.

    so yes, God can be found without the help of the money grabbing, immoral and currupt churches.
    Perhaps that is the reason everyones relationship with God is different, because it is specific to the individual and no 2 people are alike.

  7. If anyone gets the chance, read a book called “The Devils Apocrypha

    It’s obviously fiction, it’s not very long, not exactly biblical. But i found it a very interesting take on Religion, God and how we perceive it.

    • Thank you, BJ!!! I will deffinately look into it!!

    • Nice! Thanks BigJim13….I will also have to look into this book. I just searched, and it looks fascinating!

      The concept reminds me a bit of Memnoch the Devil by Ann Rice.
      I also recommend this book (even if you aren’t a big Vampire Lestat fan….as it has much less to do with that cannon then it seems…in fact, I haven’t read all of those books, and yet was fascinated by this one and lost nothing despite not reading the other books).

      Thanks again!

      • I liked ‘Servant of the Bones’ myself. I have not read Memnoch, perhaps I will when I finish with the lighter Heather Graham.

        Love & Peace
        Ama

  8. religion is communication and connection tools between God and human it is a bridge which we move on it toward god if religion doesn’t exist how we can understand who is god ? what he has told ? and what is our task ? you can see in history some nations worshiped Idol , some worshiped sun ,moon or stars ,some worshiped fire , etc . even you can see some people worship cow in present centuries , a thing worse than it ? this is mean of worshiping without religion !! there are many wrong opinion about god in world due to ignorance about real religion statement .please notice , religion is made and sent down by god not human so verily god’s statements is perfect and without any wrong issue . In part of the religion god has introduced himself . He has told who is he and how is his morality , what is lovely for him and what is unpleasant . so religion is a package including all introductions , statements , traditions, culture , laws which is necessary for human to know god and live secure and justly .therefore god is never understood without religion.

  9. I believe that Love is God and loving others and everything is all that really matters. Everything else, our achievements and material wealth, is totally irrelevant. Whether people realize it or not, love is what we seek and need to sustain us. Although love is too immense and profound to be fully known in one lifetime, without love we are nothing. To love everyone as ourselves, we must love ourselves else our love for others is false. It is impossible to be really happy if we only have love for ourselves. Until we give attention to others, we will not be able to grow spiritually. Our choice is between the spirit of God (self-love, love for others) and the spirit of self (selfishness, love only for self). By conquering self, we can change and grow easily, and know ourselves to be ourselves, yet be one with the Whole. When we do unto others, the same will be done unto us.

    So in essence what I’m say is true religion is to love others as ourselves. It is what’s inside that counts. Love, not religious dogma, creates spiritual growth. What is important is what comes from the heart, not the words that leave our lips. Love in action is what lasts. The more we live in love, the closer we are to God. The way to heaven is through the practice of love. Love is the law of the universe and holds the universe together. I believe that the Golden Rule is the governing principle in the spirit world and our state in the spirit realm is determined by our level of spiritual maturity. I think we gain this through hardships that challenge us and help us grow and stay compassionate. Before we can really feel joy, we must know sorrow. This world is the tough course that helps create within us the tough love of God. Life is a cycle of improvements that ultimately leads to perfection.

    • Hello Diana
      Yes , actually love is fundament of religion. All god,s messengers has loved humans and has tried lead them toward goodness , beauties and weal.
      one day a prophet asked god :” hey my god ,do you situate in a place by that all your greatness ? ” god replied : “yes in my believer’s heart ” also god say : ” who that seek for me , find me – who that find me , love me – who that love me , I love him , who that I love him , kill him ( not mean murdering surely ) , who that I kill him myself am his ransom (gift ) .
      so love is upmost degree of religion.

      • Hi Manss,

        People who turn to Jesus, or whichever prophet, are said to be ‘dead’ to their old lives, and given a ‘new life’ with God. Hence ‘born again Christians’. I am not sure if the Muslims see it that way?

        Love & Peace
        Ama

        • Respectfully , Ama

          I haven’t heard such narrative.

          Hope goodness for you

          • Go to any born-again church in Australia and they’ll tell you all about it, Manns :-)

            Love & Peace
            Ama

    • So beautifully put, Diana!!! You deffinately have a a true love for God in your heart!!! I appreciate that so much!!!

    • Diana
      You are so right. I am one of those people who cross over and came back. The one thing that I can tell you, I heard a voice say “everything will be alright” then this over powering felling over love, love so strong it goes through very soul. And when I came back here, all I what was to go back to feel the love again. And you right about our achievements and material wealth, is totally irrelevant

      • It took me a lot of soul searching to come to a point where I really felt close to God. I had been lost for a long time. I had a few hard falls, but I picked myself up by realizing that I was getting so little in my life because I wasn’t GIVING anything. Once I came to realize that, my life became infinitely better. I now realize that the more I love, the more fulfilled my life is. It is my hope that everyone will eventually come to that conclusion and lead a wonderfully full life as well. We are all capable of it, we just have to find it within ourselves.

  10. Great question, Luna!

    Love & Peace
    Ama

    • Thanks, Ama, my dear!!! (Insert HUGE HUGS!!!!!) :D

  11. Wow!! Everyone!!!!
    Thank you all so much for your FANTASTIC answers!!! Yes, God is everywhere; that is what I believe, but most importantly, He is inside each and everyone of us. Do I think it is possible to find God without religion? That is a resounding YES! I do believe and respect that organized religion has its purpose and in theory, it is based with good intentions. However, much of organized religion has become corrupt by man; it is a saddening truth. I believe that all religions have the same basic fundamental truths; the belief in a god, and moral rules and aspects.

    I believe, finding God in your heart, is much greater a gift that you can give to yourself and to God, than following a religion because you are told to, and not really finding God by doing that. I do not believe that God wants us to come to Him because we were forced to(as many pagans and non Christians were forced to do during the Crusades. ) I believe He wishes us to come to Him with our own hearts; to seek Him out and find Him. I believe that means more to God than us sitting in a church reciting prayers and chants absentmindedly while our grocery list passes through our thoughts. Our hearts need to be engaged. And Diana, I think you hit the nail on the head; Love is ABSOLUTELY the key!!! I like the way you think and what you believe. Ama I really appreciate what you had to say about it; the ability to find God everywhere, but still the need for that community feeling that you get through organized religion. That part I totally agree with. Going to see the loving faces that have come together to share in their love for God. I feel that if you feel the need to step into a church, just to feel the communal love for God, then there is absolutely no harm or wrong in that. I think God is even in the churches( would hold true to the “God is Everywhere” mentality! ;) ) People need to find God in their own way, and if going to a church gives them that sense of being one with God, then that is the perfect place for them to be.
    For me, I feel that I don’t necessarily need to step into a church to worship or find God. He is here with me now already. All I have to do is call out to Him. Just recently, I was able to feel His loving embrace, more that likely, because I finally opened my heart up fully to Him. As I went to sleep, I was surrounded by the brightest white light that I have ever seen, yet it did not blind me. It was so full of vibrant colors mixed with white, I find it difficult to describe here.(anyone who has ever seen this light knows what I am talking about!) I lay to rest in perfect Peace that night, knowing that God had actually responded to me that day. And I did not find Him in any church, but there in my bedroom, more that likely, deep within my Soul. I am absolutely grateful to every one of you for your answers; you have just solidified my beliefs. May God bless every one of your Souls!! (in fact, I think He already has!!)

  12. Luna- Of course you can find Jesus without prescribing to a particular religion. Jesus doesn’t like Religion anyway. What He wants and asks of us is to simply believe that He is the Son of the Most High God, that He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords; that He was birthed from a virgin named Mary, walked the Earth for 33 years, died on the cross, retrieved the keys to Hel, Death, and the Grave from Satan and now sits at the right hand of the Father.
    What He asks for is a relationship.
    Religion and Relationship is two very different things. Religion binds, Relationship frees. Religion blinds, Relationship causes one to see. Religion dam.ns, Relationship exalts. Religion pushes you away from Jesus, Relationship draws you closer to Him.

    Christianity was, in it’s original form, NOT a religion. Christian is a Roman (or Greek, can’t remember) word meaning, “One who follows Christ.” Sadly, most of today’s Christians would rather follow everyone else rather than Christ. The basic thing, though, is this: Yes, you can be a follower of Jesus Christ WITHOUT Religion.

  13. Hi Manns,

    I think that it can be possible. I mean, I don’t exactly think God is just Religion. God is love, faith, trust, hope. I think religion is just the study of how God was always there.

    • Hello Alexa
      I believe positive and warm sense as you pointed , but I told religion is a sure way to god or is like a mirror that god show himself in it . for example , if you only hear my name ” Manns” without you read my post, you ask yourself : who is Manss ? ( excuse me that I do example myself ) what is his manners ? what is his mentalities , moralities and behaviors ? and other. As you see we can’t know anyone without his signs and his acts. I know a proverb of a holy that say : “speak , to be known “. so religion is god’s letter that he has explained about himself and other rationally subjects which human is needy to those also he has explained about all his lows and human is obligated to observe those. of course what I say is a summary description about religion and if not religion is much more detailed than it.

      Be joyful

      • Manss,
        Respectfully, I do not fully agree. If religion is God speaking to us, why are there so many religions? Wouldn’t we be confused by the message? Yes, organized religion does have it’s benefits and purposes, but, for me, I only need look at the Nature that surrounds me or to look deep within myself to find God. I feel, that if I listen close with my heart, I can hear God speaking to me. I do not need to go to a Church, Temple, or Chapel to find him,(although I do believe He is there, too) I believe, when you get that “gut feeling” about something, that is God speaking to you; telling you that something is or isn’t right. There is a section of the gospel of St. Thomas, to which I tried to find for Ama, but I remember it, anyway, “You need not erect a Church in my name,for to find me,. you only need to look inside you and all around you” told to Thomas by Christ. I have to find that passage and post it here. You won’t find this Gospel in the Bible because it was removed along time ago and deemed Herosy. But, even though it was removed by MAN mind you, How do we NOT know that these were not in fact Jesus’ words? At any rate, I don’t feel it is necessary for me to enter a Church to find God, but religion can be and is beneficial for many people. As long as you find God, and place your heart with God, it doesn’t matter where you go to find Him; be it in a Church, or through meditation and prayer in your own home. Finding God is the most important thing.

        • Morning Luna, :-)

          If that ‘gospel’ is an accurate representation of what Jesus said he just contradicted himself (about fasting) .. but it could be a bad translation that I read off the web. I am hunting a better one.

          It is a ‘gospel’ that needs a lot of interpreting. LOL Verse seven could be read to mean that a lion can become a human by eating a human? Hmm…. I like this one: http://www.metalog.org/files/thomas.html

          I can’t find anything about churches, so if you would like to find the reference for me, I’d be delighted.

          This is an interesting page: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/thomas.html there are various translations there.

          Love & Peace
          Ama

          • “.the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty, and it is you who are that poverty.”

            “I am the light that shines over all things. I am everything. From me all came forth, and to me all return. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift a stone, and you will find me there.”

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Thomas

            Closest I can find, Ama. In Wikipedia, it does state that Thomas’ gospel needs much interpretation. Sorry, what I had stated was not an exact quote, but I guess it can be interpreted in different ways. Hope this clarifies it a bit.

          • Lovely, Luna, thank you.

            We all reinterpret the Bible, which can be a good thing or not, depending on what we want to believe. :-)

            Love & Peace
            Ama

        • Bravo , Luna
          you believe thinking about nature , ego , and all other things that is around us so we can know who is god. yes such method is one of the best ways to feel which this world has a mighty , scientist ,aware and so much great creator. Also god himself has recommended so ,even he has blamed some persons that don’t think about verities. He says about them : ” why they don’t think ?” – ” why they don’t use their wisdom ?” . He also recommend us thinking about nature , geophysics , biology of animals , sky , stars ,planets and other. For example he says : ” what, do they not reflect upon how the camel was created?and how the heaven was raised up?and how the mountains were firmly fixed? and how the earth was outstretched? …….” . Therefore religion which is sent down by universe creator never prohibit us of nature , walking , looking , researching and other, rather god suggests us to trip in nature see its beauties and discover its scientific mysteries and thus god be understood more. But notice please religion is god,s guidance and without it we aren’t able to understand deity exactly . following of god’s religion is necessary but normally it is not obligation (for knowing god) we go to a particular place certainly

  14. Have you gone much to those church Ama ?

    • The ‘born again’ type of churches – once in a while, Manns. The people are lovely, every enthusiastic, and the songs are great – modern hymns that really speak of people’s love of God.

      Love & Peace
      Ama

      • Thank you Ama for your explanation but what do yourself think about ? is that narrative right ?

        • I don’t know, Manns, I am not ‘born again’. I have never doubted God’s or Jesus’ existence, or their love for me, and have never felt I have lost the connection in all my ramblings through other belief systems.

          Thinking about it .. the first thought was ‘are we ever lost to God’ through (original) sin, or by not being born into a Christian family, or by not going to church regularly, or by believing in the paranormal, or following another religion that doesn’t have Jesus as the saviour, or even one that does, but puts a slightly different twist to the message? I don’t think so. If you (me) believe that God loves unconditionally, and gave us free will, then how can we be?

          Are we spiritually dead before accepting Jesus as Saviour? I know some truly beautiful spiritual people who follow Buddhist, and other, practises. I also know some equally beautiful Christians. They all speak of Love as the foundation energy of the universe, and so do I.

          Do we ‘die’, like Jesus on the Cross, in the sense of accepting his suffering as our own (which is how it was explained to me by one very enthusiastic man a few years ago), so that we can be ‘born again’ when we become Christian? Umm.. smacks of martyrdom to me, and I am not a martyr – but if someone truly wants to see it this way, and they give up being horrible, or dangerous, or a murderer or rapist, or anarchist, or whatever, and take on that belief, and take responsibility for their past behaviours .. good. Perhaps, for them, the old life has to be ‘dead’, and the person they used to be, be equally so .. for them to move on?

          I think the experience of accepting God/Jesus in your life is very personal, and how each of us views this is also very personal. Lots of people take it very simply, ‘Jesus is saviour’, and others jump in with tremendous zeal and want to ‘save’ (convert) everyone to their new belief system. Believers need a church where they can express this love and zeal, and so we have those churches. I think its wonderful when people gather together to worship God in a way that makes them happy, and which does no harm to others. So if people want to feel they are ‘reborn’ through Christ .. how can we argue?

          But that doesn’t mean I don’t want to discuss everyone’s ways of believing things, and how they relate to the bible .. that is my own personal fascination – I’ve had it all my life, and it seems to get stronger every year. Not sure if I should smile or frown there. LOL

          Love & Peace
          Ama

          • Dear Ama
            I respect to all religions and their beliefs . it is good you know , many Christian and some Jewish live in our country , they are our compatriot , we are all one nation and both live together within many centuries without any problem . our Christian and Jewish compatriot have their own churches and also have their own shops and markets in the main and best streets of cities. some of such churches ( belong Christians ) is very old and are part of our historical buildings and even government pay some budget to repair (as its first design) some these church places that has been cracked or broken down. They and we are all equal against civi rights and public law .Christians and Jews are free wholly to live according to their religions and traditions and are free to perform their rite as they wish. This freedom is not about recent history rather it is about ancient times. Even nowadays our Christians and Jews citizenship have some member of parliament beside other Muslim members to supervise and okay laws. Their vote is equal with every members of parliament ( excuse me, my English is not very good to explain according to social science therefore I can’t express all truths about this theme ) . anyhow ,Ama , coming me here is wholly a personal action and it isn’t organized or relevant to Islam. Islam never come here to establish a discussion as it doesn’t do such in our country and in throughout of the history. I’m NOT delegate of Islam , what I say , what I ask, what I reply and other is only my personal viewpoint and some subjects that in propria persona I have got of Islam but it is not mean , I am Islam !! NO , I only personally love paranormal discussion (along improving my English ) therefore if I asked you : what do you think about….. it is only my ego question and not relevant to a particular religion. So notice please all religions are respectable for me among Australian church opinions
            grateful

          • Thank you Siddle. I like talking to you too.

            Love & Peace
            Ama

        • I can’t represent the orthodox Christian Church either, Manns. Sometimes I think they would rather have me tarred and feathered. LOL Or drowned on a dunking seat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunking .. some old practises for getting rid of witches. The dunking seat was interesting – if you floated you were a witch and they burned you, and if you drowned you were innocent. Either way you were dead and out of the way .. so the authorities could claim your land and ‘titles’, if you had them – and it was mostly used on women during the middle ages.

          So, as you say, I am here representing my own views, what else can we be?

          And I understand your english very well. What country are you from? (I apologise if I’ve asked you before?) I am not into the world hysteria over terrorists being only Muslim. Look what just happened in Norway? And that guy was supposed to be Christian! Dear God. I think every human being on this planet should learn to ‘live and let live’, and that we should be able to follow our own gods, and our own rules, as long as they begin with ‘love one another’, and don’t include judging me, or everyone else, as going to hell, because we don’t all agree. (And, being me, if someone throws the bible at me, I will throw it right back LOL).

          Ok, I will be good now.

          Love & Peace
          Ama

          • No! Please, Ama! Don’t behave. :) I don’t think your viewpoint should EVER be squelched!
            I had a rough road when I first left the “born again” scene (I’m sure all my pastors wanted to see if my inner witch would float or drown too! ha!)…..so I find your words on the subject to be quite impactful.

            Also, to Manns (sorry, I know this question was to Ama, but must state my 2 cents):
            I’ll admit I’m kind of OCD when it comes to the English language, but that mostly only applies to English professors and authors, haha! I can tell your heart is here, and that’s what matters most. But I also just started a sentence with the word “But” therefore have little room to talk, and I trail punctuation as if I’m paving a road-map to the next semi-related thought…………..yet I don’t find it that difficult to understand you either, and I commend you on using this as a tool to not only learn from other cultures but also another language–aside from obvious reasons of learning and networking in general.

            Also, you noted that despite a firm position in your faith, you are open to other interpretations for personal growth. That’s the stuff that enlightenment is made of….so I, again, commend you!
            Best wishes to you, manns!

  15. just followed the commandments, dont try to hurt anybody-humans and pets, animals. dont think negative,
    but this is the hiearchy

    angels, cherubs,
    blessed mother Mary
    The Son
    trinity
    And GOD

    befor we graduated from college we must be

    -graduated from elementary
    -graduated from highschool then college,

    you cant find the FATHER without finding the mother first, then the son, after finding the son, then the father.

    -psychiramta

  16. Yay, Luna! You made it a topic! I was kind of hoping you would. :)
    (A little behind here, as work has kept me away from any and all blogging/commenting lately).

    I tend to lean a bit more towards Diana, here. Love is an amazingly powerful force….one that even perpetuates energy itself, it seems (It could even be one of the constituents of this energy). Considering many religions do have a specific word for “God’s love” as opposed to charity, passion, affection or friendship, it would seem we as humans have even been careful about our definitions of love. We’ve even been careful with the names we associate with God. We have been less then careful, however, constructing a definition of how one should achieve God’s love…..which as most things, became political. Now we have “the culture of people achieving God’s love”, which in my mind is “Religion”.
    One abbreviated way to look at it….but as I write, I know that’s not fair enough….

    So….

    Many sacred texts give you great insight into how humans try to achieve God’s love…and I could go on about that all day, so I won’t. For now, anyway, I’ll just stick to my old buddy, logic:
    I believe that it’s most likely fallacy to declare that God exists within the confines of our cosmos, and more probable that God (and God’s Energy, if you will) make up the universe that we experience in it’s totality. Religion can’t fit in this, even logically. To do so, you would have to put limitations on logic that don’t already exist. If that’s the case, then we know there is more mystery to the multiverse(s) then one can comprehend. I have yet to read a sacred text that explains the amazing quantum/subatomic world around us (in us, through us, as us, etc..). This tells me we have isolated pieces of God’s wonder. Why would so many cultures and religions leave out the most interesting bits of our existence, and settle so readily on the “here/now” aspects of macroscopic life (which in my observations, seem to be the precepts of causality. Has nobody questioned Aristotle on this idea since?!?)?
    –To be fair, some sects get into the science, but only so much as to apply localized reason with the seemingly obvious disinclination of allowing correlation with other insights.

    One of my favourite physicists/philosophers, David Bohm, believed that humankind is forever falling into isolation and fragmentation. God is a whole concept, but to understand it man must fragment the information about God (break down to smaller, more manageable pieces). With fragmentation comes the high risk of isolation from the “whole truth”. I believe Religion to be one of the many examples of fragmentation Bohm could have been speaking of….at the very least it’s my “example” and NOT empirical, but I have no problem applying the concept and letting it grow into something else. Religion seldom allows for such freedom of growth.

    So Religion isn’t enough to house God….but it isn’t necessarily supposed to. It’s simply a means to gain insight into God. The problem is, we didn’t gain new postulates on the grounds of insight, but instead gained isolation for assumed empirical knowledge about how to achieve God’s love. Humans called that concept “Religion” and either alienated or bludgeoned folks who questioned or tried to mature it based on new information.

    Awesome post, Luna! Thanks for posing the question!

    • Wow!!! Thanks Siddle!!!
      I have one question for you; do you have a high IQ or something?! LOL!!! It may seem that I am being funny, but in a way I am not. Your way of thinking is actually above many and I can tell that by the way you write. I really love your whole thought process on this topic!!! I do think as you and I do believe I have put exactly what you’ve said in simpler terms. I basically said(somewhere on this site) that it is impossible for humans, with our limited minds, to be able to grasp or even comprehend the concept of God. I agree, and I think you are absolutely correct about humans compartmentalizing God because we are limited in our understanding, and that is the only way we can wrap our minds around God’s existence. I also agree that we separate ourselves more and that that science is the key to actually getting closer to God, and I actually think science may one day prove God’s existence.

      • Hey Luna – I agree 100% that God and science are inseperable.

        Have you read The Secret Code by Priya Hemenway? Its a book about the Golden Section (also called Divine Proportion) which Mathematicians symbolise by the Greek letter ?.

        Basically everything in nature is governed by this proportion (ratio: 1.680339…) from grains of sand, or snail shells up to the construction of the universe itself. It is absolutely fascinating reading.

        ? can also be found in art and architecture, music , mysticism and science.

  17. Hello siddle
    If I understand right , I think ODC is a illness, yes ? sorry , I hope you get better . Although my question is not relevant to this post subject but may i ask you explain about this illness some ?
    is this illness same Ms ?
    secondly , thank you for your thanks about Ama and me

    • Sorry Manns. It was kind of a joke, but I used to be OCD (means: obsessive compulsive disorder) so I feel justified using it. :)

      In medical terminology, it is an Anxiety Disorder (not a sickness like MS). For me, I had to repeat everything I did on one brain hemisphere on the other hemisphere
      (example: My left hand shuts a door, my right hand had to repeat that exact action or it would cause me great amounts of anxiety).
      But I re-trained my brain a long time ago. So, no. I’m not actually OCD anymore. I really should have used “pet peeve” instead, as that would have been more fitting anyway.

      In English slang, however (could be more US slang, as I haven’t heard it elsewhere), it is a way of saying that something bothers you beyond what it should, for any rationally thinking person.

      Sorry for the confusion, but I hope that help!

  18. I get it ,Siddle and apologize you if I mistook it with MS. if you don’t become uneasy I ask some other question. has this illness genetic cause or it is created mentally and environmental ? when you feel are better and when it tense ? can Conquest over against this illness by will power and mentally practice ? I excuse again it is only curiously , why you are interested to paranormal ? what is your motive ?

    respectfully yours

    • Manns,
      No problem…I didn’t take any offence, whatsoever.
      I don’t really know what causes OCD. I have heard that it may be genetic, but i personally (and very humbly) believe it is a neurosis, meaning it is a “functional mental disorder”. I tend to think I created that, as nobody else in my family was afflicted (that I know of).
      I am ambidextrous…..I don’t know if that helped it along/caused it/etc….

      From a very young age (and still today) I believe you can correct this type of thing yourself. For, me, embarrassment was the catalyst. I think my mom was worried about it. My Dad is a traditional farmer. He’s very analytical. One day he said….”why do you repeat everything? That’s weird!!” Then I overheard him telling my mom that I needed to see a psychiatrist. That was the first time I realized it was not “normal” to others.
      So I started working to change that. In summary, it was a lot of mental practice and (a couple years later) martial arts and meditation. It no longer bothers me.

      Motives…curiosity. Always.
      I’m actually here because I was trying to find out if the place I have been going to in my dreams was a shared experience with others. I have since found this to be the case, but google had a link to a dream topic on this page (Dreams about Multi-coloured doors). I found this site to have a lot of great souls, sharing in their experiences.
      As for paranormal…..I have always been interested as I used to “see” a lot of interesting things when I was a child. I see even more interesting things in dreams to this day.

      (respects to CareTaker….I know we are getting off subject a bit).
      Manns…maybe you should start a new thread/question. I haven’t seen a topic for “What brings you to this site?”. Perhaps Caretaker already has a thread for this??
      I mean no offence to you by saying that, and I enjoy our conversation very much. But Luna posted a great question here, and I just don’t want to take away from that.

      I do hope that answered your question.
      Have a great day, Manns!! I look forward to discussing more with you.

      • Good Siddle
        I worry careTaker throw me out if I continue more about this outside discussion…. but I wish plenary cure for you, also try to become what you desire to be, as I do so everyday. soul is ruler of body it can conquest to material body inability.
        see you

        • Manss,

          I highly doubt that CareTaker will through you out, because he is quite liberal with us! ;) LOL!! And, there have been so many people here who veer off topic it’s laughable! We all do it, so never apologize!!! You could do as I’ve done and ask CareTaker to make it a separate topic!! :D You’re respectful in your comments; I think you would be one of the LAST people to even be considered for throwing off this site! Me, one the other hand, I am surprised sometimes, that I am still here, the way I have told some people off! LOL!!! If you catch being passionate about something, “WATCH OUT!” LMAO! I try my best, but there are times when people get to me.

          • Hello LunaTerra

            I have returned of a long trip recently……2000 mile traveling with a ancient car in 15 days …my force and money both is finished and now I’m licking lollipop ….LOL…. That trip was interesting and a bit hard the way was long and I was far away from my computer and internet (I wasn’t interested go to coffee net in every cities )…and after that journey I’m here now and saw your graceful comment …..
            Thank you for your guidance it made my heart warmer …. but I myself suppose what I said was not serious entirely I think it was mixed by some humor
            yes I am about 4 month here and never seen from caretaker except goodness , logic , science and mercifully about all authors

            Thank you Luna

  19. I believe in our creator, and have a relationship with him and follow no religion.

    In my view (and experience), religion is a control mechanism. Some people say that religion brings them great comfort. I tend to ask myself “at what cost?”

    I respect peoples beliefs, but cannot follow religion for the simple reason is that [lets call him] God is in my heart. God will always be in my heart. My relationship with God will always be personal between God and I, no amount of religion will ever change that.

    • Hello GirlRacer

      Here is only a discussion not more. let me go into substance world….. if you haven’t gone to school then to high school then to college so how you can understand what is molecule and atom although you know without any scientific study that , yes all thing is made from mass of particles, is such slangy information about substance enough ? identify god is too much detailed of substance ( identify god scientifically not hearty ) what a human feel about god in his heart is an individual sense and he/she is not able prove it to others logically. for example if an atheist asks a believer show me god ( who is god ) can he say him : he is in my heart !! you are needy know theology sciences and theology without religion is unmeaning because theology is interpretation of god,s word in religion. Therefore , yes love to god is a fact but it is a superlative sense between one believer and god so logic can’t interpret or explain about it. all prophets and messengers loved god but when they wanted introduce god to people talked scientific and rationally. some person had a several question about god , messengers replied them logically and according to scientific realities in universe and creatures( proportionate with people wisdom in every period of history) in earlier time of history most of people were related to their eyes and prophets could not prove god only conversationally. some people asked prophets show them some god,s observable signs and abilities so that prophets had to show some miracle from god ( some great events without any scientific cause )
      as I said prophets had to do such function and if not rationally talking was enough. anyhow as we understand substances more in school and college (by books) we must understand god (logically) by religion so nobody is not needless of religion

      hope joy for you

      • And people are still looking for signs and wonders Manns. Perhaps more people would believe in God if it dropped wonders on their heads, or smited a few of them? If we must have both, rather than the more positive ‘signs’, I think we are better off with neither.

        There is more power, strength and courage in faith than there is in belief. Belief means to ‘know’ something is real, ‘faith’ is to hope it is – and this world is very short on hope these days.

        Love & Peace
        Ama

        • Hello Ama , okay very good and meaningful reply
          If belief only mean a believe without any sense and love or awe , yes I agree with you wholly , also as you said , we people wish see some obvious signs of god among myself ….LOL I don’t disclaim this but my mean was that nowadays people are very wiser and more educated than earlier centuries and also conversation with each other is very easier and more logical than past ages therefore we can understand so better than thousand years ago the ancient people were related to miracle more than us due to deficiency of science , knowledge , experience , sagacity , social communications , logic thought and other. but now majority of people are lettered ,cultural , educated , studier and so related to logic more than old century peoples therefore they are susceptible about god’s massage although according to your comment we need to feel signs of god and also faith is superior of literal belief .

          Be joyful

          • You are gorgeous, Manns. I hope you don’t mind if I tease you a little .. because I think you meant God’s message, rather than a ‘rub down’ (massage) or ‘rubbing us out’. I was feeling rather tired and grumpy until I read what you wrote, and now I am grinning. LOL Thank you. :-)

            About people being more mature now, more ‘advanced’ in many ways .. yes, technologically we might seem that way, but as my partner so kindly reminded me the other day, when some large parts of our technology fell apart, one day we probably wouldn’t have the technicians to repair them, if society follows the same patterns as in the past. Think how frustrating it is when the internet won’t provide emails (2 mornings in the past week for me). I couldn’t fix it or change it, so I had to have ‘faith’ that the technical people at my ISP were doing their ‘best’ to get me reconnected. Oh, I could ‘believe’ they were capable of doing it, but I couldn’t see them in action. I had to sit and wait (do housework actually :-) ) while they were working – or were they having a long coffee break and discussing the weather? I couldn’t know.

            I ‘believe’ God and Jesus exists because I have had personal one-on-one experiences with both. Objectively I cannot prove these experiences, but subjectively they were both life-changing, and they are part of who I am now. What does a person, who has never experienced God first hand, do .. they have faith. When they affirm their belief in God, they do it through that faith. I have gone past faith into fact. It’s a whole different energy.

            And faith, well, people put so much more effort into being faithful, than they do into carrying on with a ‘belief’ they know is a fact. A person who is faithful is unlikely to become lazy and complacent with it, no, they have to keep feeding their faith for it to grow. And the constant source of the energy is a circle. It can grow backwards within itself, or outwards into the world. It’s up to us what we choose to feed it.

            I don’t think humans are more logical today than they were in the far past. We are still run by our emotions, still react from fear more than love, and lack faith not only in a deity of some kind, but (can I say ‘more importantly’) in ourselves. We were created to learn and grow, and what have we learned .. how to make war and hatred, how to manipulate genes to combine mouse and human DNA .. among other combinations I was reading about in the paper .. how does that advance society? Or are we throwing back to the same destructive sciences as the Atlanteans were supposed to have had? When asked if you know your neighbours and visit with them regularly? How many people can say yes? In a city, usually not many. In the country … it can be different. Does Love drive our societies .. no, money does. It’s not even barter (exchange), sometimes its just plain greed! No, in my opinion, we are no more psychologically advanced now .. we just have prettier toys.

            Do you think our belief in God improved over the millenia, Manns? Has our understanding of his/her ways? I don’t think so because we still have the same old arguments over which God is the right God? We truly are still on the outside of Faith looking in. And so many more people either have ‘no’ faith, or are too intense about it. Their way (or mine) or no way. Where is the learning there? Where is the tolerance? And that is the same within the new age industry, because I worked inside it for many years, and they can be just as intolerant within their frame work of their widely varying beliefs.

            In my opinion, if Jesus turned up now, someone would try and kill him. Any number of someones, including the Christians … so that he could ‘prove’ he was the Christ by resurrecting in front of the tv cameras. I wonder what God would do about that? Let’s not test the theory.

            I worked out, the other day, the only time I write might blogs is when I want to have a rant. I might just copy this answer over into one of them LOL

            Thank you for your comment, Manns, I needed a spur to get me writing again. :-)

            Love & Peace
            Ama

  20. Ama , you didn’t bother me at all …..LOL… But I excuse that I forgot reply to one of your comment in this post , I thought may you have thought I am bothered of you and haven’t replied you , No it is not so , I only forgot that and I shall read it again and reply soon. At that time one of authors by name Siddle had wrote a comment, I was going to reply him and forgot to answer you too.
    what I said about present people ,was about ordinary people that wish live normally without any crime ,malice , trick , greed , falsity , untruthfully and other.

  21. I call myself Pagan because it’s the closest I can get and people understand what I’m talking about, but truly – I belong to no religion.

    Religion is man-made and in my opinion, separates people from God.

    God isn’t complicated like doctrines makes him/her. And so, you’re likely better off to simply talk to God like a friend vs. jumping through hoops to make you worthy to be in the presence of God. Truth is, God loves you just like you are. You don’t have to be perfect. You don’t have to have a degree. None of that, just talk to God like a friend and you’ll be surprised the type of closeness you can gain.

    That isn’t to say spending time with like-minded people isn’t great. It can even help your spiritual walk. Some people get this in a church, synagogue, temple, during ritual, etc… but what matters above all is that YOU find a way to make God personal to you. How you dd that isn’t important. God doesn’t mind. God just wants to share an abundance of love with you.

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