Submitted to us by Mary Ellen
A long time ago, in about 1997, I met grandpa Fuller. He was my best friend Peyton’s grandpa also known as “papi”. He was a nice man who always talked to me and he always gave me candy.
One day I went to her house and she was crying, I asked “what’s wrong?” she said that papi died. I was in shock, I sat beside her and cried with her. I never got to go to his funeral which made me sad.
About a year or two later Peyton and me decided to go to her grandma’s house to stay the night. The night went on as a normal night. Everything was going great, then we had to go to bed. We slept in her grandma’s room on the left side of the house. There were two beds and I chose the one by the window.
I was watching TV peacefully as Peyton fell asleep. All of a sudden I heard a loud knock on the window beside me. I was frightened and looked out the window to see who was there. No one, no one was there. I sat perspiring and afraid.
My attention got caught on an old man dressed in a yellow and blue plaid button up shirt and light brown khaki pants. This man had grey brushed over hair. I sat scared out of my mind. The man stared at me and walked to the front door. I jumped up to see where he was going. He opened the door and closed it. No noise, nothing.
I woke Peyton up frightfully and told her about it. She told me that it was in fact grandpa Fuller. He was dressed in the clothes he was wearing at his funeral. Long live grandpa Fuller, and I’m glad I got to say goodbye.
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Your asking a very diffecult question and a very easy qeustion in the same way.To be a christian is to be Christ like,but so many people have no concept of what Christ was like.I have met thousands of Christians and some claimed that they were very righteous because of this or that,some were very judge mental.Because I really like the care takers web sights on the paranormal even here on this sight I have have lost friends because I admire what the care taker is doing,so to be honest its all about a relationship with Jesus Christ.See because even Jesus Chriat himself not once ever said any thing good about religion but he did require us to have fellowship.Some people think because I am an author I know so much but this isnt true because the older I get the more I realize just how much I dont know.But I would like to say this thow,I do find it odd how many people when they find out their dieing all of a sudden want to get really religious.
As a Catholic, I believe that the way to salvation is through baptism and beyond that trying to lead a Godly life. As in following the 10 Commandments and being a good person. I honestly feel like the whole “saved” thing is just a ploy to get you in with some of the more cult like churches. I once had a Jehova’s Witness ask me if I would like to have a way to be with my family through all eternity and went on to talk about being buried together, as in all in the same tomb. I do my best to stay away from that type of thing. So, if you are not Catholic, I would say just pray a little everyday, recognize and apologize daily for your sins and talk to God as often as possible. As long as you’re not killing or some other crazy thing in His name, you are no worse nor better than the rest of us and have the same fighting chance.
Hi Tim
I am happy that you recovered from your various illnesses. Unfortunately I do not believe for one moment it had anything to do with you having a relationship with Jesus Christ. I believe Jesus was a teacher and a healer, like so many before and after him. Jesus was a son of God, like I am a daughter of God. Therefore, my relationship is with God.
The will of God (or the whim of God?). Gosh, people love using that phrase to provide an explanation for a spiritual state of affairs where seemingly no other explanation can be found – to explain the failure or otherwise of prayer. The “will of God” does not sit well with me. When my father wasnt healed of his cancer, my mother said his faith wasnt strong enough. Faith in what, or whom? Faith is too unsubstantial, too vague.
The rite of baptism is an ancient one, and was in existence before the birth of Jesus. Some people believe that to ‘die’ un-baptised was to be deprived of entry into heaven – to be condemned to hell forever. Some even believe that if you are baptised on your death bed, your sins are automatically washed away. If only it was that easy. I find it hard to believe that being baptised automatically gives anyone the right to see God! believe water is a good cleaner and a great channel for use in the psychic force.
Love and Blessings
Lucinda
Well Lucinda
If you died without having been baptised and managed to avoid being a sinner, your soul ended up in Limbo forever without ever seeing God – that used to be the teachings of the Catholic Church. Well Hey Presto!, that’s now been changed by the present Pope – Limbo doesn’t exist anymore
.
I’ve been skeptical about these ‘faith healing’ sessions and wondered how people could allow themselves to be sucked into this scam, but now I wouldn’t discount it altogether even though I have not witnessed a faith healing. However, I can say categorically, ‘spiritual’ healing does take place – I received relief one night – which lasted for three days until my dental appointment – after days of relentless excruciating toothache. I didn’t pray for help or solicit help from any source, yet for some unknown reason, the ‘Powers That Be’ knew my agony and pain and felt the need to visit me and eradicate my pain and allow me to sleep at night until my dental appointment – I was fully awake when it happened so there is no illusion on my part. This is true – it happened to me many years ago – Why some get help and others don’t – is a mystery!
Hi Diana,
Are you talking about being saved ‘spiritually’ or saved by healing from illness? They are two different things.
and everyone …. bear with me, this is going to be a long answer.
Here’s my take on things.
When God created humanity He gave us something He didn’t give to his first creation (the angels). They were created to be His servants. We were created to be His teachers. Teachers? Yes. You see, we were given Free Will, which is the right to choose our own destiny, to not follow orders if we don’t want to, to change the rules, the invent the rules, to ‘make’ our lives, to wreck our lives, to love and follow God’s commandments, any god, or not. Think about it – when was the last time you saw someone ‘smited’ for taking God’s name in vain .. or for adultery … nope. If God smited (???) every person who broke His rules .. there would not be one living person on this planet these days.
Free will. Lovely stuff. Comes with a set of rules. “If it harms none, do what you will”. For the Wiccans around here you will recognise the ‘Creed’. For the Christians .. don’t panic. Here’s the same rule again. “Love one another as I have loved you, John 13:34-35 Follow my teachings and come to the Father through Me” John 14:6 Sadly, with a bit of redacting we ended up with Jesus being the only way to God but … let’s go back to the smiting stuff. No one has been smited yet for being a pedophile, and some of them swear they are Christians?? Why do some pedophiles spend their entire lives hurting other people and never get caught? Well … its all about free will .. and the flip side of that coin called karma.
Karma is the Hindu word – a reasonable explanation is here http://www.dyad.org/d06karma.htm
Karma, in simple terms, can be described as ’cause and effect’, you do something you either reap the rewards or the punishment for your actions. It might not happen in this lifetime, but its cumulative – which means you are going to have to deal with it later, whether you like it or not. It is also a possible reason why some people are healed and some aren’t, in this lifetime.
I believe in karma because I do not believe in a judgmental God, and I believe in reincarnation (which is mentioned in the Christian bible when you know where to look). When a new born baby dies unbaptised, according to some Christian laws, the child immediately goes to hell. I want to know why God would do that to a child who has done nothing but not had time to be blessed? What sort of God is that? Not my God. But when you look at that event through the eyes of free will and karma a possible explanation appears. What does the experience teach the parents? What does the experience teach the child, who may well have had many other lives before this brief one. So much good can come from that pain, and often does .. I have seen that myself through a few friends who have lost babies very early on. And where is God? Watching over us, loving us, helping us to heal from our grief, allowing us find peace again .. allowing us not to, sometimes, as well. I could tell you many stories about people who have come to me for counselling because of the grief of losing a child that way, who walk away on the path to peace and healing because they can see that they were not punished for their misdeeds by losing the baby, among other explanations. Are they saved to God? Some of them certainly are. They are no longer angry at God to ‘taking’ the child away….
And then there are the grown ups. Why are some people, even though they pray desperately, and believe deeply in God’s healing, still passed over by God when it comes to healing? Well a belief in karma means two possible explanations – 1) they are balancing past misdeeds through an illness in this lifetime, or (2) they are giving other people, and themselves, an opportunity to learn to love compassionately and unconditionally, to heal from their fears of death, to share the lessons that come from an illness .. and for themselves – they can draw closer to God as part of the process, or push God away .. it is up to them – and God will continue to love them through the process from beginning to end .. and gather them gently into heaven (whichever heaven you believe in) when they let go of their bodies. It is there they will understand what the whole process was about, in ways we cannot understand in the limited ‘reality’ we are in at present.
Why one person and not another? What did each person choose to experience in this lifetime? What did they choose to teach others, family, friends, or even the world, when you think about people such as Jane McGrath in Australia. She died of cancer and from her death has sprung up so much good, so many people have been helped by the Foundation her husband created in her name. So her death was not a waste, but a doorway to healing for so many other people, perhaps not of their cancer, but certainly of their hearts. And other Foundations have been set up before her death, and since. Here’s a world change, not just a personal one. Here’s free will in action. So many people could have grieved and been angry instead, and yet they didn’t ….
Truthfully, Diana, this has nothing to do with one person’s relationship with Jesus or another’s. Some people will never know Jesus and yet can be the greatest and most loving people in the world. They might be Buddhist, or Hindu, or Muslim or Wiccan or Athiests or Agnostics. Healing happens because we will it, or we don’t. That is our right, given to us by ‘God’ (or Allah or whatever name you give to the Creator being). We change our lives because we choose to, because we have this gift – this huge gift, that so many people never acknowledge, understand, care about or treasure – and we should treasure it. We have the right to choose, and no one can take it away from us .. but we can give it away, if we are foolish.
And no one can measure whether their relationship with Jesus is better than someone else’s, for each is individual and suited to the needs of the living person and not Jesus. Jesus wanted us to love God the way He loves God. Jesus, as the Christ energy, the Holy Spirit, is a living force on the planet today. He is the ‘magic’ as it happens, the power of Love and Healing in our hearts and minds, the doorway to peace we can step through in the name of God (or Allah or Buddha or whomever else brings you peace). We have given the Creator many names, but the energy is the same. Love is the key on this world, although sometimes its hard to see it on the local news reports – but on a one to one basis .. Love is the key, if we let it rule our lives.
I choose Love. Sometimes when I am angry and hurt and in pain I forget for a moment or two that I make that choice, but I come back to it as quickly as I can. And I apologise, as Teresa said, when I say something snappy at people, and I try to be a good person and a loving one in every situation. The Christians say to think, before each choice, ‘What would Jesus do in this situation?’ and I agree with that action. Choose your diety .. what would your loving God do? before you act out your hurt and anger? That’s how you build a good relationship with God. Love one another as I have loved you. UNCONDITIONALLY. Do you know what it means?
So yes, some people can walk with Jesus all their lives and not be physically saved from an illness, but .. our lives here on this planet are so brief in comparison to our spiritual journey, that in the long run, and with the deeper understanding we get when we go Home (heaven by any name), the illnesses become simply lessons we can learn from, and others can learn from too.
Having just had major bowel surgery for cancer, and then kidney stones right on top of that, I am, to some degree, speaking from experience. Did I choose this journey .. I know I did. I understand the ways of karma and free will. I can see my mistakes that led to this outcome. My choice now is to take lessons from all that pain and my personal struggle with my fears and turn my life into something I can truly be happy with. The journey will be fascinating.
Love & Light
Ama (still recovering)
@Ama From illness. It stemmed from the faith healing question. I hadn’t noticed that I answered that question with a question. However, Caretaker did and posted it for me
I sincerely thank you, Ama. You answered that in a way that makes a lot of sense to me…and is actually very comforting. I think sometimes it’s easy for us to lose our way and feel a little lost, spiritually speaking….and even easier to wonder where God is when we are feeling this way. I still haven’t cemented my spiritual beliefs but, I’m getting there, with the help of people such as yourself who have different experiences that have lead them to look at the situation from another vantage point.
I’m sending you a mental hug
You don’t know how many times I have asked that question only to have people assume I’m trying to antagonize them into an argument about the existence of God. That’s not it at all. I definitely believe in a higher power, but, I want to know more. I want to understand it all, and how can I do that when no one is willing to explain the parts I don’t understand? I can’t. Until now. So thank you, again.
((hugs))
Diana
Hi Diana,
I love hugs!!! Thank you so much.
I love discussing God, and it pains me that its so hard to find people to talk to about it, or I have to call it Spirit (which is actually Holy Spirit with the first word left off ). You are right, they all either run from the subject, or think I’m trying start an argument of some kind. I’m not. I just had strong opinions that I am not frightened to express, and God has to be logical to me – and yet the subject is so emotional at times for me too.
I still haven’t settled my beliefs either. I have foundations, laid solidly like a wall, but after that you might say there’s a lot of bamboo .. its very strong, but also bendable if you know how to do it. And I am growing and learning all the time. I think we have to be flexible like that because GOD/Spirit is such a huge being, encompassing so much we don’t yet understand, and possibly may never be able to, because we are not broad enough in our thinking yet.
So please .. let’s play with the subject. I know God would love us to talk about it all, not from ego, but because s/he wants us to live, love and learn .. every day of our lives.
At present I am listening to a course I downloaded that compares four of the great ‘sages’ of the world, Confucius, Jesus, Buddha and Mohammad. I have just heard the first two lectures of thirty-six. What I am looking for is their similarities in thought .. for the foundations that helped them grow spiritually and led them to their wisdom. That should be fascinating.
You can find it here shopgreatcourses.com.au
Happy Easter everyone, if you are of that persuasion,
Love & Light
Ama
Ama, I am confused.
The christian bible states in many places that God creates our future and decides our fate. It constantly denies that we have free will. If God knows exactly what will happen, (having unlimited power and knowing everything infinitely) the status of choices as free, is questionable.
My mother always tells me that I have free will and it is by my own choice whether I go to heaven or hell. But according to the bible, my destiny was decided by God, before I was born.
I really wish I can get my head around “free will”
Love and Blessings
Lucinda
Lucinda Smyth , i was searching previous comments and reached to this post and saw your replying about ” free will ” and notice you suppose god has obliged some human go to hell and send some human to heaven as he will .no it is not so let me first explain about human free will. if you haven’t free will why you say : I shall go to school tomorrow ? ….or … when you go to a restaurant you order a food that you wish ? totally you are free doing a work or put by it. but notice please human will is not an absolute thing you say : I shall go to school tomorrow . but may you can’t go to school because of an event for example because of head cold or you go to a restaurant and order a food , servant say excuse me that food is finished therefore you can’t attain to your wish . but often your destiny is depended on your choosing , your determinations and your actions . god is not cruel to send a human to hell based on his will without that human has has any chance and right to choose his way to heaven or hell. No if you think so it is wrong . we can be good or bad , righteous or wicked , follow god or follow Satan . this two way each one conduce to those particular destination , heaven or hell . if we choose the heaven way, unique god help us attain to it, because god is more merciful and soft than mom and dad . so notice please we have ” free will ” to choose our way but our ” free will” is not able to change every event but if you choose a good way, events are not able to change you if your willpower doesn’t break against that event.
Hi!
As a Christian, i believe the answer to your question comes from the Bible, which to a christian is the Word of God. Think of it as the owners manual to life. There are things written in the Bible hundreds of years ago that modern science only figured out in the last century or so, so you know the Bible had to come from God. Google “science and the Bible” sometime and you will see what I mean.
Scripture tells us that ALL have sinned and fall short of what God would have us to be.
Are Christians perfect? Absolutely not. I fall short every day. But I have to pick myself up again and keep trying.
Basically, God has given us free will to choose to become saved (to become a member of His kingdom) or to choose not to.
The basic steps to become “saved” are as follows:
1. Hear the Word (attending bible study and/or worship service)
2. Believe the Word.
3. Repent of your sins (turn away from bad behavior)
4. Be baptized (full immersion, not pouring or sprinkling.
5. Continue to study the Bible.
6. Attend worship service as often as you can.
Don’t let the world of religious denominations fool you. There are literally hundreds of (so called) Christian denominations out there trying to drag you in.
Christ only founded one church. He said, “I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
For more good info, check out http://www.scripturessay.com
Also, listen to the “Know Your Bible” radio program at http://www.familyvaluesradio.net which you can listen to anytime. At the home page go to “Click to listen” and the program is of course under K.
I will be happy to answer any questions you or anyone else may have.
Take care,
Jim
Hi Lucinda, and everyone, it’s another long answer.
The bible doesn’t deny we have free will, it just doesn’t state it plainly.
I did a quick search (thank you internet) for ‘free will’ in the Bible, and you are right, I can’t find the words together in the New Testament (but I found them in my concordance in the Old under ‘free will’ offerings (meaning you didn’t have to do it, but in that case society expected it). What I did find is a lot of other people’s opinions on the subject, and it was all very interesting.
Here are some of the reasons why people think God gave us free will:
God gave Adam and Eve free will. They could choose to follow His instructions, or they could do the opposite. Being human, they did the opposite. We were created to learn, otherwise we would not have schools. If there was no free will they would still be living in the Garden of Eden, without offspring .. because they didn’t know they were different from each other until after the fruit (not an apple, btw, because they didn’t grow in Israel at that time, so its more likely they ate a pomegranite (sp?)). (Genesis)
We are called ‘children of God’, not ‘slaves of God’ (see Galatians 5:1 for instructions). Slaves don’t have free will in many senses. It’s a kinda cruel example, but its still an example.
Scripture teaches us that we are responsible for our thoughts and actions, and will be judged. Since God is fair (or we hope He is (leaving the old testament one out of this)), we therefore must have the freedom to choose, otherwise there is nothing to judge when we break the rules, because we couldn’t break them without free will. 2Cor 5:10
And from that – why give us laws if we did not have the capacity to break them? Robots don’t need them. Hang on a minute, robots run on a set of ‘laws’ (programming…..)
Even Jesus had free will – he could have turned and run … thank you that you didn’t!
Mat 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
How could he say ‘your will be done’ if he didn’t have the right to use his free will to choose that path?
Here’s the page where I picked some of the thoughts
from: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090227101258AAOum0g
And here are a few others off the top of my head. When you got up this morning what clothes did you choose to wear? Or did the voice of God tell you what you had to wear, because if you didn’t have the right to choose, He’d be picking your clothes for you. And that goes for what you eat .. and our over-indulgence in chocolate, which is good for neither of us – hmm… does God agree? LOL I do hope so.
Predestination: John Quinn wrote a good article on predestination (see link at end of paragraph). He says that John Calvin (1509-1564) http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/john-calvin.html interpreted the bible, and created the belief, that everything is predestined and that we have no free will at all. Read Quinn’s article – ‘Were you predestined to read this article?’. http://www.bradleychurchofchrist.com/Topics/Predestination.htm Calvin, as did many other Church Elders over the centuries, changed the course of Christian religion, and often not in a good way. A lot of good Christians died because of him.
God wanted us to come to Him through Jesus Christ, but we’ve always had the right to say no, and go other ways. We, as humans, are predestined to return to God one way or another – we can do it the Christian way, through Love and JC, or, when we blow ourselves up we’ll go back to God as the energy beings we are, without our human bodies; and then there are other paths .. but that is not for today.
Being omnipotent and omnipresent, God does ‘know and see’ everything. S/he is Everything (which means both male and female) .. the world is God, you and I are made up of bits of God. Denying God, to me, is denying my own existence .. but that is just my belief, and I could be wrong .. but I hope not because I have had many lovely experiences both with God and the angels, and I don’t think they were my imagination. LOL My understanding is that S/he doesn’t interfere with our choices, nor do I believe that S/he spends a lot of time peering over my shoulder when I’m sitting on the loo. Free will in action, also privacy …. but when I call for Him/Her in my heart, and my words, S/he’s right there, because S/he never left. It’s my ‘will’ (free will) that separates me from God, not His/hers. S/he continues to Love us unconditionally – which means S/he loves the saints and all the sinners in exactly the same way. Perhaps S/he, like the angels, sees our capacity to be perfect beings – and encourages us to become them through example. And where do we get the lessons from – other living people.
And so it comes down to a human’s right to choose to believe something that limits our capacity to Love God, instead we are being taught to fear him/her. ‘Fear’ God .. not ‘be in awe’, ‘be overwhelmed by the wonder and magesty’ .. oh no, its ‘watch out or HE’LL smite you. And its not just your mother’s church, but so many others, including the Anglicans.
Jesus said ‘love your enemies’. That can be rather hard to do when our enemies turn out to be ourselves. So many people hate themselves, or dislike themselves, or disrespect themselves, and how do we teach them otherwise, when they are taught to think they are better than someone else because their God is better than the other person’s. Or that ‘our’ God is the only ‘real’ one, and all the rest are demons. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t believe in multitudes of Gods, I just think that God, being omnipotent and omnipresent, has enough ability to be everyone’s GOD .. every single person on this planet no matter what (or who) they believe in. Getting totally off topic here, so I shall sign off
Wishing you all,
Love & Light
Ama
I do not believe free will was a “special gift” given to us from God. We would not be able to function as humans without being able to make decisions. We dont need a bible scripture to tell us we have a choice to make our own decisions.
I am still trying to understand why we would choose to be ill, or abused, or tortured… You mention the pedophile will be punished… later. Is the abused child suffering for past misdeeds? I am having trouble thinking of a more damaging way to understand the world. Oh, wait, maybe something good will come to other people out of the child being abused. I’m sure the child will take that as a great comfort.
Believing in karma can be very comforting – “you will get yours sooner or later, if not in life, then after you die”. I guess there isnt any harm in believing in karma. If I can’t prove something (like I can’t prove I have free will), I try to hold the belief loosely, and I prepare to change it if the evidence contradicts. I think that’s a pretty good way to go. Always seeking, learning, seeking…
I personally do not need to be told by anyone that words can hurt etc. My conscience tells me this – and that I guess is why we have one. Most people do nice and rotten things, and we all have nice things and rotten things happen to us
Love and Blessings
Lucinda
Hi Jim
I don’t think my behaviour is any different from people who call themselves Christian. I think I am a grounded person (most of the time) and try to do good things, like almost everyone else. I believe most humans have an innate moral sense (whether Christian, Hindu or Muslim).
According to the bible, Jesus taught that his system had to come first, ahead of your own family. The bible encourages you to believe what you read into it, to the detriment of ALL other. Thus, two people could quote the same bible, and yet disagree with each other vehemently, according to their point of view. Yes, it all comes down to interpretation. Many heinous crimes have been committed over the years in support of the bibles teachings.
Jim, are you saying that only one of all the (as you say) hundreds of Christian denominations is correct, and that it just happens to be the one you follow?
No, I do not believe the bible is a source of truth, it is full of contradictions. Gosh, I could not list them here, as it could fill a book. Yes there are many good things written in the bible, but there are far more bad things. Unfortunately the good is tainted by the bad that surrounds it.
Again I say, I do not believe truth comes from the bible, and I most certainly would not use or recommend anyone uses the bible as an “owners manual to life”.
Love and Blessings
Lucinda
Hi Lucinda, (and everyone),
I like your attitude of keeping an open mind.
You know I have just been ‘very ill’ according to the doctors. My mind still doesn’t wrap around that at all, but that’s just me. Why did I choose it? A number of reasons. Laziness is one of them. If I had had the warning signs checked much earlier I would not have had to have that operation. But .. and its a big but! If I had not had that operation I would not have gone through all that pain, and then the furiously worse pain of the kidney stones, and I would not have started looking at myself as intensely as I have since the three weeks before the operation when I found out I had had cancer. I have learned so much about myself, some good, some I regret – they are the things about myself I will work on. They are the things that I will use in my life to stop me being complacent, and procrastinating so much. I am good at procrastination, and there is so much good I could be doing instead. And I still love wasting lots of times on my silly computer games. It is very easy to go back into old patterns, particularly at the moment when I am so low in energy that I wear out just cooking dinner .. and you know I love cooking. So, in many ways, this journey I ‘chose’ has been very good for me, and I will make sure it continues to be, because then there is a reason for it that I can justify to myself, without just thinking of myself as a fool.
Yes, an abused child could have been an abuser in a previous life. It might not have been sexual abuse, it could have just been verbal. A murder victim could have been a murder. A soldier often goes back to soldiering because its ‘what they know’ .. even if they have never done it in this lifetime before. I know I have been a soldier but physical violence frightens me in this lifetime. It is the last thing I would ever want to happen, but I know how to kill people, because I have done it before (before meaning in other lives, all of which I remember). On that thought, how do we justify war at all? Murder with permission?
You see, we usually don’t know what agreements we have made with the people we interact with in our lives before we come into the world and spend time with them on this incredibly negative planet. One belief though is that we are all born over and over with the same group of people and that we all play different roles for each other in the process. So someone who might have hurt you in this lifetime, you may well have done the same to in a previous one, or you might in the next … if a person chooses to hang onto the pain, fear and anger the abuse creates. That event incurs karma, and the victim’s choice to remain hurt also would incur ‘karma’ and affect another lifetime, perhaps not the next, but certainly one of them.
The ‘child’ has the right to be angry, but they also have the right, and the ability, to find another path to healing. They can choose to forgive their abuser and wipe out the karma between them. That takes a really strong character, for it is very easy to be negative on this planet. Just look around us. This place is pretty much a mess now, and why .. because its easier to blame others and find fault than it is to face ourselves, accept responsibility for what we create (either on planet, or before we come into the world) and clean up our own messes, no matter how big or small. There are plenty of examples of that – thinking fights within families that last forever, (an eye for an eye in the Christian bible), or oil spills that are still poisoning the oceans and various companies are trying to blame each other for it – and who ‘pays’ .. everyone in the end.
You and I have a conscience, a sense of right and wrong. There are many, too many, people born today who do not have one. Who the blazes are they? I still remember one of my daughter’s adult friends who announced her lack of conscience to me. She says she’s grateful to her mother ‘for teaching her ‘how to live’ because she cares for nothing and no one and knows she’s perfectly capable of walking on anyone who gets in the way of what she wants, but she doesn’t because of her mother. I can only bless her mother, and do so every time the lady comes to mind. BTW, she’s a counsellor (the lady, not the mother), and does good work, as well as teaching it, I have been told. I wonder what karma led to that? At least she is choosing the ‘Light’ path consciously. She could do so much harm because she is incredibly intelligent and in a high powered position within a university.
Karma .. cause and effect by its Hindu name. You have a right to choose to walk in the Light, and a right to choose to walk in the Dark. To come back to where we started from .. that’s free will in action. In a way you could call it a spiritual war. Good and Light are on one side and evil and dark are on the other .. and God is everything.
A sobering thought,
Love & Light
Ama
p.s. I will always see free will as a gift given to us by God, because the angels do not have it – they can only follow orders. It is why one third of them fell, just for a moment one of them was given the right to choose … but that’s another story.
Hi Lucinda and Jim,
Here’s my understanding ….
Just for the record I studied started studying Theology at St Marks Anglican College at Canberra in Australia in 2006. I made it 3/4 of the way through before I had to stop for financial reasons, but I am still studying Theology today,and will probably spend the rest of my life doing it because I find it fascinating.
I also find it wildly irritating, and became very angry as I studied church history and realised just how much the bible has been changed (redacted) over the centuries since its creation, and how many people died for their beliefs.
One thing I remember from the very first day of the course, and the very first lecture with the senior lecturer. He said to us that the course would either ‘make’ or ‘break’ our faith, because we would come to see that God didn’t write the bible, but men did .. and rewrite it, and adapt it, and completely change it, and misinterpret it, and leave bits out (the Apocrypha is one of my favourite parts of my Bible (The New Oxford Annotated Bible). Well, he was right. I have 13 bibles todate .. Christian ones .. and I do comparisons all the time when I am investigating a subject or three .. and the differences in the interpretation of the Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic can often be profound. A comma in a different location (and the Hebrew’s didn’t have commas or full stops) can change the whole sentence meaning! So when someone says to me that the Bible is the ‘word of God’ .. well, there’s a lot of wisdom in there, a lot of love, a lot of hate, a lot of confusion, a lot of contradictions, and reincarnation .. if that is the Word of God .. then I am very frightened, because God appears to be insane.
Men wrote the bible. They might have got messages from God and put them in (the new agers call that channelling these days), but those message went through each person’s belief system and some of them might have come out scrambed. And then there’s the interesting part .. just how many gods are in the bible .. for the Old Testament talks about Jehovah (YHWH) and in the New Testament Jesus is talking to EL from the Cross?
So yes, we have a million churches all coming to God from a million different directions, and sometimes you and I won’t agree on one thing or another .. but with good discussion and clear thinking, and an open heart and mind, we might just find concensus in the confusion. I love to think so. I love God, I love humanity and I want to help save us all from our own darker selves. And we need all the help we can get.
Hello God .. are you listening today? Or reading over my shoulder .. because I know you are smiling. I can feel it in my heart. I Love You.
Love & Light
Ama
well i think its ridiculous how you have to follow all these rules in order to be “saved”
this is my personal opinion so nobody get your panties in a bunch.
if God is this great person/deity/being then would he really care if we did all the things like attending mass all the time and reading the bible and confession and stuff like that?
as long as you are sorry and genuinely sorry for any crimes that you have committed i think you will be per say “saved”. Even tho i don’t believe in being “saved” because i believe we all come back to the earth after a period of time in “heaven”, i guess if you are “saved” then you aren’t sent into limbo/hell.
Mass or the confessional neither one are from the Bible.
Hi guys, more thoughts on your topics,
Jesus never had time to build a church, nor the structures (or they would be in the bible) of confession (please come in this little box and we’ll slide the curtain over and no one will hear you (ummm??). If you believe what is written in the Bible, and some of it I do, the foundation for Mass, and other church services, is there in many forms. Think of the Last Supper – the Euchrist (sharing of bread and wine), it was a custom of the time to show friendship and a willingness to connect to each other (breaking bread with the enemy being one tradition, to end a feud). There are plenty of groups that still do this, sharing bread and salt (the staff of life), or drinking from a communal cup, to link the group to each other. Gathering together to hear Jesus teachings happened all the time. Did they sing? Of course they would have. It was part of their culture. So did the questions and people answering them. The people might not answer well, but their opinions were as valuable then as ours are today, as we try to learn about God/Spirit, from our own experiences, our own hearts, and from what we have learned from other people’s writings.
And confession is good for the soul (its the truth, not just a quote .. think about it .. don’t you feel better when you share your problems with someone?) .. or we wouldn’t have counsellors, psychologist, psychiatrists, or best friends .. and Jesus was everyone’s best friend. People came to him seeking peace and healing, and they would have told him what they had done, and he would have helped them find that peace.
The ‘buy your way into heaven’ bit of the church is not in the Bible. I find that an insult, and deathbed confessions aren’t there either .. we have karma to fix that one, but Jesus himself said that the Temple (and he was Jewish and meant the Jewish temple) was not a market place. It was only later ‘Christians’ who brought in those bits of ‘bulldust’.
Yep, Jesus wasn’t a Christian. There was no Christianity until after the crucificion. Then there was only human interpretation, human memories of a great man, and human pain and suffering .. and on that they founded a church, or 10. And some of the founders were stronger and louder and more charismatic .. and got more followers …
Jesus taught ‘love one another as I have loved you’. Pity we can’t go back to that simplicity. Or can we?
Love & Light
Ama
True, mass and confession are not from the Bible. So much of what goes on in the name of Christianity is because people try to follow their feelings instead of God’s Word.
Another problem comes from all the many false teachers (which scripture warns us about) which we see so often on TV etc.
A question was asked of me earlier in this forum. Do I really believe I belong to the only “true” church? I would like to hope so. But could I be that lucky? I do know that I can find scriptural reasons why I would not attend many others. If I find a better one I would go there. The Lord was always very specific about how he wanted to be worshiped.
Anyway, I would like to say this is a very interesting forum with a lot of fascinating people and stories/opinions etc. I wish you all the best of health and happiness!!
Jim
This is such a great subject, and I am really enjoying reading all the different opinions.
Love and Blessings
Lucinda
p.s. CareTaker, everytime I look at your profile pic I crack up laughing
Wise words Ama.
Quote: Jesus taught ‘love one another as I have loved you’. Pity we can’t go back to that simplicity. Or can we? – Yes, it is possible.
Soon everything will change for the good.
But before, there will be a time of paying back, what we took. That time is now.
It’s a time of separation from those who are called to what is known as Hell.
Some will have their heaven now (being rich and materialistic) and they’ll suffer deeply for an eternity later (that’s how they might feel about it). Others suffer now, because they have the chance to enter the doors to what is known as Eden, – through love.
And when the scales of earth and it’s inhabitants are equal…this is the time
when there will be heaven on earth again.
If you have faith and ask God with all your faith…he’ll answer you…just not alsways as you expect it. But mostly in dreams. Intuition is a good interpreter.
But not everyone is bound to understand it.
Wishing you all peace and god bless you.
J.M.
The Bible is very specific about being saved. They are very simple steps. You are to believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, that He died on the cross for for all of our sins, and tha you believe that God raised Him to life again and that the Holy spirit comes to live in you. Then you confess these things and you are saved. You get baptized as an outward demonstration of the inner change that you have gone through. You do not have to be baptized to go to Heaven but you must accept Christ as you Savur as said above. If you had to be baptized what would have happened to the thief on the cross. This inward change should cause you to seek a close daily relationship with God through Christ Jesus. You cannot be good enough on your own to enter God’s presence. That is why you must be cleansed by the sacrifice of CHrist by choosing Him. If anyone goes to hell, God did not send them, they chose to go because they chose to reject Him so do not ever say what kind of loving God would send a good person to hell, He never has. He has given us all the Way and we must choose it. If you don’t you chose hell.
In the Word of God, Jesus says, “There will be this who come to Me in Heaven and say, Lord! I did THIS in Your name and THIS’ but, I will look at them and say, ‘Depart from Me for I do not KNOW you.”
In this passage is the key: relationship. If you go to Heaven never knowing that you must have a relationship with Jesus, then He will judge you by what you knew on Earth. However, if you KNEW that you had to have a relationship with Him and did not have one, you are doomed. A relationship with Jesus allows you to get closer to Him and become LIKE Him. As your relationship with Him grows, so does your faith and trust and hope. Of course, the closer you get to Him, the more the Enemy wants you to get AWAY from Jesus.
Jesus knows you inside and out, but that’s not enough for Him. He wants to know everything about you from you. Jesus Christ was never meant to be a complete mystery to His creation. If you know His heart then you know Him. This is why it is so important. This is why some go to Hell and others to Heaven: because they knew to have a relationship but chose not to one with the Almighty God.
Ama,I dont mean to disagree with you but are you a baptist or what because I am a spirit filled christians who believes in the power of faith because it has been documented I had cancer,liver disease,sever mental illnesses,and sever other health problems and God has healed me from every one of these.I am now getting my pastoorial training and I was wondering where you recieced yours and what doctrine do you believe?
Hi Tim,
You have had an amazing journey!
You are welcome to disagree. People do it all the time. And no, I’m not a Baptist. I have never even been in one of their churches .. though I consider it at times, out of curiosity. My partner used to go there and he’s .. not happy about them. I hear they can be very interesting.
My ‘pastoral training’ began when I was about 17, and continues to this day, though not inside any church. I am now 49. About 4 years ago I went to St Marks Anglican Theology College (University) here in Australia for 1 1/2 years of a 3 year course, ran out of money and went and drove taxies for 2 years. LOL I did it because I was told to, very loudly, when I was 17, in a vision where I walked with Jesus. I was told I would study Theology, I was also told I would do a whole lot of other things, outside organised religion, living, as I do, on the boundary that separates Christians from those who do not believe. I spent the years between 17 and now studying the Bible, other religions, and a million other things, that all fit together to help me talk to folks that do not have a grounding in Christ. We reach those we can, Tim. I try to lead people into a quiet, safe place. God finds them there, and everywhere else.
And there is only one doctrine “Love each other as I have loved you”.
So .. argue with me, debate, talk, disagree .. I don’t mind. I learn from the experiences, and I hope you will too.
Love & Peace
Ama
I’m not Christian, but I do indeed live very much by the teachings of Jesus. How could one possibly go wrong in doing this? He was an awesome guy who taught us to love, not judge and live peacefully. I find serious wisdom in his teachings and they shine a light through me – even though I’m Pagan!
I might be condemned a bit for saying this, but being saved as far as salvation goes isn’t needed. God not Jesus expects anything more from us than to love and treat others as we want to be treated ourselves.
Saved from illness or something else negative has nothing to do with Jesus, in my opinion. Unfortunately, sometimes bad things happen to fantastic people.
I’m not trying to be sarcastic in saying this, just what I truly think. I’m happy with who I am, I’m prayed up so to speak and have a great relationship with God and Jesus both – but bad things do happen to me. It’s circumstance.
Brightest Blessings to you,
Robyn