Do People Who Commit Suicide Go To Hell?

I want to know what everyone says about this. I was always taught that if you kill yourself you go to Hell with no chance. A family member killed them self a few years ago and I wonder about this.

Did he go to Hell just because he committed suicide?

Asked by GirlyQ7

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  1. Hi GirlyQ7

    Let me tell you about a couple of interesting events in my life.

    1) A lady wrote to me about her cousin who had just committed suicide. She had the same opinion as you. I am a Spirit Rescuer (my site is listed under ‘friends’ on this page). I find and help lost souls. I went ‘hunting’ the spirtual planes for her cousin, and found him wandering lost. He also had the same belief as his cousin, but since he wasn’t in the ‘hell’ he imagined, he had no idea where he was. That’s why we call them ‘lost’ souls. He stayed with me until the rest of the time elapsed for his body to truly release his spirit, and caused some general irritation with his attitude .. he had been suffering from deep depression and was rather hard to ‘live’ with for a few days, but then we got him into healing – and he’ll be just fine now.

    2) A friend’s father was dying of kidney failure. I am told it is incredibly painful (having just had kidney stones I can truly believe it!). He was told he had 2 weeks to live, and would die in agony, so he put a gun to his head .. and his wife found him afterwards and his daughter wrote to me via email and told me what happened. Funnily enough, Spirit had told me to go and visit the lady (who lived 4 hours away by car) the weekend beforehand .. and funnily enough, her parents were also visiting that weekend .. so I got to meet them both. That made ‘finding’ him a whole lot easier when I went hunting his spirit, to MAKE SURE he didn’t become a lost soul. I remember the living man, he was very angry, and also very Christian.

    I found him. For the next 2 1/2 days I craved cold red wine. I cannot drink alcohol. I am allergic to it. I have not touched the stuff, nor wanted to, since some fool male spiked my drink when I was 17. I threw up on his feet. The reaction is always instantaneous .. but that’s another story. As I said, for the next few days I found myself in front of the fridge, with the door open, hunting the bottom shelves for the wine. I asked his daughter about this and she agreed, he did love his cold red wine (I always thought you were supposed to drink it warm and aired???). And then there was the car. He loved to drive. He drove my arm one morning when I was taking my kids to school. At one point I argued out loud with him about leaving my arm alone, after my son commented on how many times I had changed gears in that short drive. I still laugh about it now. :-) My son is not a believe in ‘that stuff’, but my daughter .. is like me. So the lady’s father travelled with me and chatted to me, when he wasn’t ‘sleeping’ (which they do most often during the 72 hours it takes for the spirit and the body to disconnect from each other). And then he too was escorted into healing by his angels.

    No, people do not go to hell when they commit suicide. They are given the opportunity to go to heaven, just the same as all the rest of us will be when we cross over. They might ‘choose’ to wander lost, for many different reasons, but if you want to bring your relative to mind right now, and remember good things about them, to draw them close, you can then ask your guardian angel (and we all have at least one standing behind our right shoulder) to FIND him/her and TAKE him/her into healing. The angels know what to do.

    How do I know this? I’ve been rescuing lost souls since I was 33, and talking to ghosts, spirits, angels and other beings since I was two. We are all loved profoundly and unconditionally .. that means that we all go to Heaven (in whatever form you believe in) when we die. Hell is a home for demons, not humans. Unconditional love and hell do not go together.

    Love & Joy

  2. I do not believe they will go to hell, because I do not believe a place like hell exists. Hell is a fiction meant to keep the “faithful” in line with the church’s teachings.

    I believe suicides are met in the afterlife with compassion and understanding. The turmoil they were experiencing before death will still be with them, but they will receive all the attention and counselling they need.

    The suffering they will experience is seeing the effect their actions have had on their loved ones.

    No one judges us – we judge ourselves.

    Love and Blessings

  3. According to the film Beetlejuice – all those who commit suicide become civil servants in the after-life …. lol! Sorry – I jest … but I kinda think that’s closer to the truth than we think?

    God loves us all, unconditionally, and so everyone who goes to HIm is treated with compassion and stands before God equal to any other soul..

    I believe that we judge ourselves, rather than God judging us. Some spirit may refuse to go to God in the first place, for fear of being judged and thrown into Purgatory for eternity. These lost souls then chose to walk the earth with the living.

    Some souls may beleive that their actions require the harsh punishment of Purgatory and so send themselves there. But I don’t believe God turns any soul away that stands before him. God is about healing and forgiveness, not chastisement or punishment.

  4. OK now for my opinion on this question. First off it always strikes me as strange when Christians come up with things that are supposed to be a sin yet they cannot provide a definitive scripture to back it up. Is suicide good? No, of course not. Is it wrong, yes it is in MOST cases. Is it a sin? Maybe it is and maybe it isnt but if the people who say they are following a certain book or set of guidelines should follow that and not try to bring in other stuff. If you say you are following the God of the Bible then how about letting God decide whether a person sinned and is going to Hell or not? (Does Hell even exist? And if it does do we really know anything about it?)

    The family of a person who has committed suicide is generally devastated and are going through a VERY rough time. They certainly dont need people yelling “They are going straight to Hell!”

    There are all sorts of factors that can lead to suicide. What if the person was mentally unstable? What if they were severely clinically depressed? What if there are one or more of several other extenuating circumstances? Christians need to stop standing in judgement of other folks and concentrate more attention on themselves. If every person out there who claimed to be a Christian followed one simple laws first of all “Harm No one and Love thy neighbor” think of how much different this world would be!

    Short response but I am limited on time…

  5. Hi Caretaker,

    Great response, couldn’t agree more!

    Suicide is also a huge waste of a life. From what I have been taught, and from talking to people who have suicided in other lives, we just come straight back into the physical world and repeat the patterns of the lifetime so that we can make another choice, a different one. I don’t really want to do that again. LOL

    And ‘sins’ seem to change depending on whom is doing the judging. I am in the process of reading a book about all the ‘Popes’ since Peter (the first) up until the 1600′s .. according to Christian teachings they will all be in hell. They were, for the most part, not nice people.

    Oh well, we live and learn, and live and learn, and live and, hopefully, learn. LOL

    Love & Peace,

  6. Hmm, how could one know that “all’ suicide victims do not go to “hell”. Playing devils advocate here but what if I was at the top of a multi-million dollar ponzi scheme in which I ripped off thousands of people from their wealth and retirement money. My ponzi scheme was later exposed and I was facing a maximum of life in prison for my shady business. Instead of going to jail I decided to take the cheap way out and committed suicide. I was in no pain whatsoever. I just didn’t want to face justice for the illegal crime that I committed. Will I go to heaven in this situation if I committed suicide? How are you so sure that I will go to “heaven”?? Could I trust a human being with the future of my soul??

    • I am the same way whenever I see an all inclusive statement such as “All”

  7. Hi Big Chief,

    No, you can’t trust a human being with your soul, but you can trust God .. and believe me God is watching and s/he knows what’s on your mind.

    I know because I killed myself and remember the process. I have also been a lost soul .. which is one of the reasons why I am a Spirit Rescuer in this lifetime.

    Everyone goes to heaven. Why do they? Because God loves unconditionally. That doesn’t mean there are not repercussions for appalling behaviour. That’s why we have karma. If you choose deliberately to harm someone you will pay for it either in this lifetime, or in others. That does not give you permission to do whatever you like in this lifetime. Only sociopaths have no sense of right or wrong, or any of social responsibility. But then, that’s a choice too.

    And then I have to ask why would someone even consider such behaviour? Do you really want to be on the side of the ‘bad’ – personally, knowing what I know, I wouldn’t want to be. The Devil is not an illusion, it exists here with us, and while we might find peace and healing after we are dead .. we can be painfully hurt while we are alive. I’m not saying the devil will arrange it, but I certainly would not go looking to make trouble for others. Not anymore. You see, for every wrong deed you produce the energy that attracts negative entities to you .. and its happening more often, even to really good people.

    The other puzzle for me is why you think going to heaven is a problem? I would think everyone would be happy and grateful to think they can find a place where Love rules rather than the fear, anger and hatred that so obviously governs this planet?

    I would be interested to know your answer.

    Love & Peace,

  8. Big Chief. The sin you committed before suicide (purposely setting out to harm others) would put you onto the lowest planes of the astral realm. The act of suicide itself would not.

    I’ve mentioned this before. I think its relevant to christians. A god fearing nun, back in the 1800′s had devoted every day of her life to helping her community, helping other people, selflessly never thinking of her own needs. She’d give her last morsel of food to somebody that needed it, and take the shoes off her feet to give them to a child. She was beaten every day by her superiors, yet she still carried on helping. One late night after helping some orphaned children get a bed for the night. She got back to her convent, only to be greeted by a beating. The other nuns beat her to within an inch of her life. They stripped her, and left her out in the cold. A week after she’d recovered she was raped by a monk of the neighbouring monkhouse. She was pregnant, yet she still continued to help the needy. Until her superiors found out she was with child. They beat her again, literally kicking the child out of her. She miscarried. This poor unfortunate, lovely kind benevolent soul was locked in a room without food or water and in great pain. She’d killed herself 2 days later.

    Does this soul, this kind loving caring soul deserve to go to “hell”?

    This is a true story, and happened in England in the late 1800′s. I have seen the documents pertaining to the case brought about by the people she helped against her convent. They were found guilty, and the monk was never found. A young street urchin of 6 years of age had seen a monk “moving on the kind nun”. This is how they knew it was a monk.

    Irrelevant of the outcome of human judgement, would our loving higher power condemn her? Judge her as unworthy? Deny her peace? Ignore the good deeds she did for people in her life?

    The answer is a resounding NO.

    Would you?


  9. If you believe in a Christian Hell and Christian values then yes.

    “The Body is a temple” and life is a gift that God supposedly gave, we do not have the right to refuse that gift.

    If i recall in Dante’s inferno theres an area for the souls of people who just didn’t enjoy life, and where always swept up in depression and self obsession, and for people who took their own lives. I could be wrong though, been a while since i read it.

    However this is an ancient view point, from before we knew about mental illness etc. I personally believe God would understand.

  10. Hi Steph,

    Is it a fact that she killed herself? Knowing that they believed so strongly that suicide was a mortal sin, I think more she probably died of her injuries, and perhaps loss of hope. The Mother Superior might have said she killed herself to mitigate their guilt?

    And no, she would not be in hell, as we both know.

    Love & Peace,

  11. Hi Ama, hope you’re having a great afternoon!

    Yes. Unfortunately, it is a fact. I should have explained earlier, I’m sorry. She stood on a chair and flung herself out of the window.

    Very very sad thing to do. When someone’s state of mind is so desperate and feels so alone, thinking nobody can help. Awful.

  12. Hi Steph,

    She got beaten to within an inch of her life, recovered, got raped, found out she was pregnant, got beaten up again, miscarried, and was being starved .. in the 1800′s when we do not have antibiotics .. and two days later she climbed on a chair and threw herself out the window, defying everything she was taught (I won’t say programmed) to believe … I wonder why she chose hell instead of heaven?

    That was one tough cookie of a nun. I know a lot of nuns are tough .. they have told me so. LOL

    The whole story breaks my heart.

    Love & Peace,

  13. Hey Ama,

    I know LOL. The thought has run through my head that maybe she didn’t actually deep down feel anything for the church, she just wanted to help people and what better position to help than to be a nun (or a doctor?)

    Her name escapes me. I remember the year she died was 1886. (I’ve had two motorbike accidents, a plate and a shunt in my head, and recently had keyhole surgery to remove a brain tumour (non cancerous) and beaten breast cancer twice, due to the brain op, i’ve lost a little of my memory and my speech is affected, so its difficult for me to recall names) but I will find the documents again and tell you her name, then you can see for yourself.

    Do you think in the afterlife that if you ask for forgiveness, God will listen?

    Most of this God/afterlife/paranormal stuff is new to me. In my 34 years on this planet, 32.5 of them were spent as a complete atheist. I’m not a fan of the church or the bible. But I respect people that do hold faith in it all. I’m trying to get to know God. I accept him in my heart. Do you think he minds us questioning things? Like for instance God is a superior being, but does he expect us to forge a relationship with Him with no questions asked?

    Too many questions. Sorry Ama. Beautiful name by the way. My late aunt’s name was Diama. Rest her lovely soul. My first name is Cheyenne (middle name is Stephanie but people call me Steph)

    Thanks hun
    Steph xxx

  14. What do you want to be called, Steph? My daughter changed her name at 14. It took a while for the family (except her weird mother, me) to accept it, but it was a life changing experience for her, and obviously the right thing to do. She’s a very powerful person, most of the time, now at 24 .. turning 25 soon.

    I would love to know more about our nun, when you have time.

    You’ve certainly put yourself through the wars. I hope all those troubles are long gone now.

    Ama is ancient Hebrew, usually means something like ‘mother’ or nurturer and I love it. It is also in most languages, except English, meaning the same for similar.

    I love answering questions, particularly about God. It’s good training for my mind. LOL

    Do you think in the afterlife that if you ask for forgiveness, God will listen?

    In my experience God listens all the time. Being omnipotent, and omnipresent .. all powerful, and always around, s/he hears the song of our hearts, the music our spirits/souls make as they add to the harmony that is the music of creation, and everything we think and feel. S/he does not interfere when we choose foolish or harmful expressions of our ‘self’ because s/he loves us unconditionally. Here’s where it gets complicated .. but only if you do not accept that you can be loved profoundly, and deeply, and truly, and gently and kindly .. no matter what you do, no matter who you are, who someone else thinks you are, or what labels they place on you, unconditional love means that you require no forgiveness.

    What IS expected of you is to learn to accept responbility for what you create, to do good instead of harm, and if you do harm, in any way or form, to compensate for it, to equal measure, or more, in this lifetime, or in others. It’s called karma .. simple word for a very complicated bit of information. That we can do this, and do do this, means an unconditionally loving God .. and there are enough people in the world now who speak of reincarnation, of past life memories, like my own …. for us to begin to trust these ideas.

    Sadly the churches are terrifed of the consequences of not having a judgemental God. Suddenly we do not need them to lead us to their creator .. their hatefilled, spiteful, unloving god (small g) from the old testament. ‘He’ seems to be around too much. If you have a sense of spiritual freedom you are not frightened of dying, of being judged and found wanting. Instead you have a freedom to express your true self .. and its not a nasty self. God didn’t create nasty selves. S/he created perfect beings, first the angels, then humans. It was the angels falling, and God’s curiousity .. and then humanity’s choice to follow the shadow side of their nature .. that led to where we are today.

    So .. no, Steph, God doesn’t forgive. S/he doesn’t judge, so there is nothing you can do that s/he has to forgive you for. Forgiveness is a human created belief .. we have to forgive ourselves to move forward as spiritual beings, pay back karma, or receive the gift of it when we do good, and learn and grow.

    Do you think he minds us questioning things?

    How else do we learn if we do not ask questions. I think God might be very sad if we didn’t question, but just blindly accepted what other humans taught us. That is what ended up happening, particularly in the Christian church. “Believe what I say or you die” .. (Inquisition in a nutshell) Look where we are now?

    Like for instance God is a superior being, but does he expect us to forge a relationship with Him with no questions asked?

    How do we have a relationship with someone if we cannot question them to understand what they are trying to teach us, what their motives are, what they want or need? Makes no sense. That’s not how it happens in the world – and one of the spiritual laws is “As above, so below”. In other words, we reflect (mirror) here on earth what is happening in heavens. There are lots of questions being asked .. add yours to the mix. I ask questions all the time!!!!

    Love & Peace

  15. Personally I am a little entertained with people that claim to be christians and perform spells, talk to spirits and work with stones etc. When your own rules and guidlines state if you do so you are being deceived by the devil and will go to hell? Well that argument aside there really isnt room for interpretation the bible states you will go to hell if you take your own life.

    So if you belive in the bible, the written word….then you have to believe they go to hell.

    If you dont believe in what the bible says and think its like cliff notes or something and have your own made up religion you should name it.

    Personally I am a pagan, i know there are many entities out there, the christian deity was among them and apparantly was very jealous and petty and forced these people to do his bidding. I follow a natural path and believe in helping people. So pleases dont deceive yourselves if you want to claim to be christian, you should probably follow its rules.

    There is a neutral place filled with a lot of nothingness where most astral travelers go to and in some places mirrors our own, its where quija boards make contact with other beings via portals where a lot of people can make some sort of contact as it is neither here nor there.

    No one can contact any person that has passed sometimes they just arent here or there anymore…where are they, i dont know.

    When did christians start believing in reincarnation btw if you could tell the the verse in the bible I must have missed that part and ive read both the good and the bad bibles and the three lost ones they didnt bother to publish with the real bible, you know the one about the angel watchers that had sex with human females to make titans and demons?

  16. Questions for M(r)s. Ama again. You say that God is not a “judgemental God”. You also say that you will face Karma for the bad you do on this earth in this life or in some other. Question, if I murder a whole family, what Karma would I face in the next life if I escaped justice in this life? Also, who makes me face this Karma. Do I automatically face this Karma when I die? Does God make me face this Karma?

    Also, you say God is omnipotent, omnipresent and has unconditional love for us all no matter what we do. If God is perfect and has unconditional love for us, do you think us human beings should become like God and not be judgemental of each other and exhibit unconditional love. Do you believe that we should do away with the prison system because it deals with judgement and throwing human beings in jail. Should we do away with prisons and just hug murderers and rapist and love them unconditionally? You say God doesn’t judge so is judgement only a human trait? If it is only a human trait, how do you feel we humans should deal with violent criminals on earth? Those who seek to do harm only..

    For Jestergypsy, where in the Bible does it state that people who commit suicide goes to hell? Also, who told you no one can contact people who have passed away? There are many ancient stories and some new of people making contact with dead human beings. Even devil worshipers believe you can contact dead humans but not the ones who have been re-incarnated. The Keys of Solomon also is for contacting dead humans and demons. Which other beings you think are contacted through ouija.

  17. Hi Jestergypsy

    What are the good and bad bibles? The Christian one and the Satanic one? I’ve read that too, a very man-made bit of writing.

    If the bible was the ‘word of God’ no one would have had to rewrite it, reinvent it, or reinterpret it .. which most Christian groups have chosen to do along the way. People who choose to believe in it as the Word are in no more danger of going to hell than you or I. God doesn’t follow the Book, only some Christians do .. and quite truthfully, if you have a hard look at most of them .. they don’t either.

    The old testament deity Jehovah, was a jealous god, the New Testament deity, El, tried to teach everyone to love one another, through his prophet Jesus Christ. The Christ energy, aka the Holy Spirit, did something magical for us .. it freed trapped souls, also inferred in the bible – after the crucificion the old prophets were seen among the people (I will find the passage when my eyes are less blurry). The question was .. were had they been hiding, some for 1000 years? It is a great pity the old church fathers were so frightened of losing their power that they had to wipe out the more metaphysical side of Jesus’ teachings.

    I like the thought that if you want to call yourself a christian you should follow the rules .. but which ones? The 10 commandments aren’t bad, apart from the jealous God bit. No one has been smited in living memory, since El arrived – the newspapers would have noted it. Before that anything was possible. The fun about being a pagan (a generic term that covers so many different types of beliefs) is you have no rules .. except one ‘if it does no harm, do what you will’, though that is actually wiccan. And most of the other ‘gods’ in the pantheon of hundreds, are more interested in themselves than humans. We are playthings to them. At least El is only sitting and watching and allowing us free will.

    The neutral place you are talking about is known as the Void, and ouija connect there. There is no guarantee what sort of entity you will connect to, because its a resting place for all sorts of mainly negative beings. Better not to play russian roulette with your spirit.

    Christians already believed in reincarnation back before they were Christian. It was part of many cultures that the early creators of Christianity took their beliefs from. The doctrine was removed from the teachings by later ‘church fathers’ (but not by the Nicean council .. I researched that when formerly studying theology at university) for fear that they couldn’t control their followers if those followers didn’t need the Church to save their souls. But there are still some references to it .. 20 in all, according to Elizabeth Clare Prophet .. I’ll have to find the list again, but one I always remember is Jesus saying that John the Baptist had been Elijah.

    Here’s some links –
    A bit fo history:

    A bit of mystery:

    A bit of theosophy:

    Which three lost books of the bible, of about 40 or more I think, did you read? You mention Enoch 1, who teaches about fallen angels and nephillim (giants). We have proof of the giants now. Enormous human skeletons have been unearthed over the past few years, some with horns .. how weird is that. :-) And Lilith, who I do not think is mentioned in Enoch (been a few years since I read him), was supposed to be the first wife of Adam (before Eve) and if you read both versions of the Garden of Eden story in the bible you can see where she might fit in. She was supposed to have sex with human men and give birth to demons – what are now known as a succubus .. and yes they, and their opposites, incubus, do exist.

    I am not a great one for hypocrits, which is why I don’t go to many churches. That doesn’t mean there aren’t really good, loving people in them. And people need belief systems to support there understanding of themselves. What would you be if you were not pagan? I can call myself that too, but, as I said, its too generic. And I don’t really like the Christian Spiritualist title either, but its as close to what I am as I can get. I believe in the power of the Christ energy, and I talk to dead people.

    Love & Peace,

  18. Hi BC, really great questions, like usual. :-) I’m a Ms about to become Mrs .. but everyone just calls me Ama. You are welcome to.

    Question, if I murder a whole family, what Karma would I face in the next life if I escaped justice in this life?

    Karma is such a complicated thing. First you have to look at the karma you shared with each of the family members that you killed. Are you balancing karma with them .. did they (one or all of them) kill you in a previous life? It might not have been in the same sort of situation, e.g. it might have been on the field of battle? But if you chose to kill without a reason (but your own desire to murder) then yes, any or all of them might do exactly the same to you, and possibly your family, in another lifetime. Again, all the people involved in the situation would first have looked at their own karmic debt with each other person. We have guides and helpers to help us sort it all out, btw.

    Also, who makes me face this Karma.

    You do. God/Spirit created loving entities who are allowed to experience different situations to learn and grow from them

    A good example is a lady I will always remember. I saw her on the news. Her daughter was raped and murdered, and when they caught the guy, instead of wanting to kill him .. she forgave him. How powerful a person is that woman, how loving her spirit, how good, how kind? I do not know if I could do that, if something happened to my children. She is a living example of how we should all behave.

    In Spirit, when we return Home after dying, we get to see the ‘big picture’ of our lives, and all our previous lives, so that we can understand what motivated us to make the choices we did. And then we choose, because we have free will, and have to choose, to make recompense for what happens, in one form or another.

    Do I automatically face this Karma when I die?

    Yes. It happens almost immediately after you return to a calm state of mind after returning to heaven. You review your whole life, seeing the good and evil and making your own decisions on what needs to be done. Again, you have guides and helpers to assist with this.

    Does God make me face this Karma?

    No, God made you, but s/he doesn’t make you do anything else. You have free will. It is a gift you will never have taken from you – unless, karmically, you chose to give it away.

    If God is perfect and has unconditional love for us, do you think us human beings should become like God and not be judgemental of each other and exhibit unconditional love.

    Yes. What I want to know is why it is so hard to make that choice? We are such powerful beings, created in love, filled with curiosity, capable of such great good, and yet so many of us choose to be small, nasty and thoughtless. We can rise above our childhood pains and fears and become truly great, if we want to. We have living examples of this, all around us, and we need more.

    Do you believe that we should do away with the prison system because it deals with judgement and throwing human beings in jail. Should we do away with prisons and just hug murderers and rapist and love them unconditionally?

    The legal system, not the prison system, doesn’t seem to have a lot of justice in it, though I think many people try to make it happen. There is plenty of judgement, and that flows through into the prisons. I don’t believe that the current prison systems we have around the world work very well, but I know they are needed – if only to keep truly nasty souls away from innocent people. No, I do not think we can do away with prisons as long as human refuse to see that harming others is not a good way to behave. Sadly, some people come out of prison worse than when they went in, but some don’t – some learn from their mistakes and move on with their lives, and do great good. They can balance the karma of their evil choice with good works while living, and then not have to do anything but review it once they have passed over.

    No, I don’t believe in hugging evil people, (though a good hug at the right time might have stopped them being evil) and then letting them get away with whatever. I do believe in the power of people to change their own lives for the better. Free will in action. And I do believe that we should love people unconditionally, regardless of their behaviour. That does not mean I agree, or approve of what they have done, but I know that each person is a spiritual being having a physical lifetime – and our spiritual lives are far longer than the small time we have in our bodies.

    You say God doesn’t judge so is judgement only a human trait?

    Yes. We created it as a control measure .. to make ourselves feel like we have some control over our lives, and the lives of others, when we thought we didn’t.

    If it is only a human trait, how do you feel we humans should deal with violent criminals on earth? Those who seek to do harm only..

    Do you believe in ‘an eye for an eye’ ,BC? Do you think that the only justice for murder is more murder? That’s what the death penalty is .. a long drawn-out murder process. Think of all the vendettas among mediterranean and other peoples .. one death leads to another, and another and another, until whole families, over many generations, are killed. Is that the solution?

    I think violent criminals should be locked up away from people they can hurt. It’s not a good solution. I think they should have psychological help, so that those who can be saved, will be saved. Sociopaths and psychopaths don’t have the capacity to change, but I know a good sociopath .. she knows she does not have the capacity to tell right from wrong, but .. she had a good mother who taught her how to behave correctly, and she thanks the lady, in her heart, every day, for the gift. If she can do that, so can others. She works as a counsellor, btw, trying to help others understand themselves. She is another good soul on earth who has given herself a powerful challenge.

    Ok, I think I answered all the questions.
    Have a great day,
    Love & Peace

  19. Personally I am not sure you could put a religious answer upon my beliefs. I have seen and done so many things. I wouldn’t document for fear people would try to do the same thing and I feel fortunate to still be here.

    I know there is a universal rule that “ghosts, demons” whatever have to follow. Every one of them that i have encountered has been flawed in some way that you could either entice of force them to leave or do whatever is need done.

    The christian faith yes you have a list of written rules, yes “the word of god” has changed but most faiths revolve around the moon sun stars and nature. Its very common in all religions. So honestly i dont try to judge. Simply spoken there are three types of people those trying to do good, those that dont care about others, and then the selfish that only care about people they are involved with..

    I call myself a pagan because simply spoken there are truths in all of the religions i have read and researched. I believe in rituals and/or the craft. There can be a lot of power drawn if done appropriately. There are elements aka crystals, metals and herbs that all hold power here if you know how to use them. Even animals have their place.

  20. for big chief…for the record…I didnt say you cant contact any of the dead I said no one can contact all of the deceased. Some just arent there to be found.

  21. Hi Jestergypsy,

    Demons have to obey commands made in the name of Jesus Christ. That’s the law, and we need it where they are concerned.

    You were dealing with, either man-created demons, or lesser demons, not the fallen angels. That’s a whole different ball game. Be careful all the time. They have LONG memories, and humans have short lives.

    Remember when ‘drawing’ power, there must be something of yourself given in exchange. Without the balance all things are destined to fail.

    Love & Peace

  22. You know the fallen angel theory and that they have to be compelled in the name of Jesus Christ. I am sorry but if you actually tried that with a real possession, and think it is that simple if feel bad for you and anyone think that it will really help them.

    I do know there are many things in this world that are old and powerful and unforgiving. I take what i do very seriousely. Remember not everyone can and should be helped either, took me a while to learn that one too.

    Personally I do not think people who commit suicide go to hell either. First its because I dont believe that hell exists, at least not as portrayed. There aren’t man created demons as far as I have heard of or encountered. Lol @ lesser demons. I dont know i ever heard of a lesser demon, lesser beings maybe.

  23. Hi Jestergypsy,

    We all experience different things – depending on our belief system and who we are as people (our strengths and weaknesses as well). Nothing happens without a reason, and you not experiencing fallen angels doesn’t make them a ‘theory’, far too many people ‘have’ experienced them, and the mischief, and often pure nastiness, they can get up to.

    And yes, I have invoked Jesus Christ in a number of ‘real’ possession cases, and will continue to do so because I know it works. Again, perhaps it doesn’t work for you because you don’t believe in it, or the people you are trying to help don’t believe in it – though I find I can help people just fine whether they believe in it or not. It hasn’t mattered what their belief systems are when they feel possessed and come to me for help.

    Old, powerful and unforgiving is a very good description for Samael – who people call the devil.

    I agree not everyone can be helped, but I don’t agree with ‘should not’ be helped. If they come to me for help there has to be a reason and I will do what I can. Have you ever refused help to anyone? Ask yourself why – it might be more about your motives or your fears that you cannot do at least some small thing towards helping them understand what is happening, and release some of their fears. That will change the pattern of their energy, help empower them .. and ‘that’ might really help.

    Ther e are man-made negative energy forms .. I have ‘seen’ and dealt with so many of them, including intelligent ones that could talk. I have also seen other ‘beings’ that are obviously demonic creations. I hope you never do.

    This is not a calling for just anyone. My training began when I was a very small child, and it continues.

    Love & Peace,

  24. hello Ama Nazra,
    I am deeply fascinated by your belief system. I understand and respect that you do not exactly follow a specific religious denomination; neither do I. I was born and raised Catholic, but over the years began to question it’s teachings. I do not begrudge anyone who does follow a specific religion, I feel, as you, that religion can and does ground and center people in their lives. For myself, however, too much of “the church’s” teachings did not make sense; one specific one, which I found heavy in discussion here. I was taught that God is a being of unconditional love, yet “the church” also taught that God would send you to hell for this or that. Does not make sense to me. If God is an unconditionally loving Being, he can not and would not “smite” us or send us to hell. As for hell, I believe that is a place we send ourselves by turning our backs on God. God does not send us there. I believe we reincarnate; I believe we keep coming back as to learn specific lessons to grow and enrich our souls as a gift to God. I do think that haviing a “hell” gives certain individuals a “peace” because we as humans need to feel that “justice will be served” so to speak and that the horrible people on this earth should go there. I just don’t think God sends us to such a place, we do it ourselves when we turn our backs on him. He will just be there waiting for the day that we once again acknowledge His presence and return home to Him. I also bellieve that a Mother God exists, and that in many cultures, She has appeared to people. Some have called her Santa Maria, or the Blessed Virgin Mary. I believe there is duality in all things, including God. As for the origional question, I do not believe a person who commits suicide will be sent to “hell” by God because as an ALL Loving Being it would be immpossible for that to happen. If a person goes to “hell” it is because they put themselves there. Ama, I would love to learn more about what you believe and I think that you have been given a trying but rewading task in this life of saving the lost souls. I imagine, not an easy job, but I am sure when you have saved a soul, it is very satisfying and rewarding. For the record, I also believe that even those who turn their back on God are welcomed back home to Him when they finally see the light and are no longer lost. I believe He is waiting for every one of them with open arms ready to bring them home! Also, I have read alot of Sylvia Brown’s Books and I find many of her beliefs to be similar to yours!

  25. Hi LunaTerra,

    Nice to meet you. Do you want to speak privately, or shall we ask Caretaker to start a ‘spirituality’ question?

    A couple of stray thoughts in the meantime -

    What I want is a church that teaches about God’s love without us having to be punished. LOL Damn. When Spirit first told me to study Theology I told them they were crazy. I was 17 at the time. It took a few years.. hmm.. about another 25, before I finally gave in and started, but I am glad I did. The teachings of JC have nothingt to do with religion, and the profound and gentle teachings of so many other great people have, over the years, created a foundation of belief very similar to mine in lots of people. But what they were, for me, was confirmation of what Spirit had already been teaching me over that time.

    One word on Sylvia .. though I like her early stuff – there is no such thing as Carrion Angels. They suddenly appeared when she was very angry with her ex-husband, probably for very very good reasons. But they do not belong in the Hierarchy of Heaven, and we don’t want them ‘created’ just because humans now believe in them because she came up with the concept.

    So – Caretaker – who about a question like ‘What do you believe?’

    Love & Peace,

  26. Ama,
    Yes, well, Sylvia also believes in Faeries and believes that Lilith is actually the Faery queen and not Adam’s first wife. lol! I don’t buy EVERYTHING she teaches, but some things make sense and also seem to be similar to your theories. i realize that your beliefs come from many different religious theories and appreciate that your beliefs do no fit neatly into one specific religion. Neither do mine. I can not explain how, or why, but I know that God does infact exist. It is something you just know deep inside of you. I also believe that religions are like many different roads leading you to the same place. Whether you believe in God, El, Allah, Buddah, I think in the end, we are all praying to the same God.
    I can not buy into hypocacy and i see too much of it in the Catholic church. That, is of course, my feeling and opinion. Catholocism has given so many a grounding and strenth that if that is what they whole heartedly believe, who am I to begrudge them of it. That also goes back to my previous statement that “all roads lead to the same place” senario. They are, in some way, still loving and repecting God. I repect all religions but the only thing I can not tollerate is hatred and killing amongst some religious denominations(of course those killings have been performed by radical extremists and there are many peaceful members of other denominations!) including the Catholic church with the “Crusades” Murder in the name of God! As if God would want that! But of course, God has forgiven them and taken them home being the all loving and omnipotent God He/She is and the have probably gone through a reincarnation to right their past wrongs through karma, as you say. I could go on and on, but maybe that is for another discussion. Maybe it is time to hear what others have to say!

  27. Hi LunaTerra,

    I forgot about the Lilith stuff. She must be the only believer. Lilith is definitely a demon. You could say I’ve ‘met’ her. That’s no fairy queen energy.

    You know God/Spirit is real because you’ve met the energy. We all return to Source when we are in Spirit. It is why we call it ‘going Home’. Some of us bring back the memory of the connection as a certainty in our souls! Maybe its so we can help others make a connection while in their living bodies .. because we all have it when we are not.

    BTW, Buddha is a prophet/sage/teacher, but not of any God, as someone told me quite fiercely the other day. LOL

    The balancing energy of the cruscades (1095 through 1291) was various Inquisitions starting in the 12th century and lasting, in various ways, until 1834, inside the Catholic Church .. they killed lots of people, quite often their own.

    God people are strange.

    Love & Peace,

    • Ama – from what I have read the Catholic Church is responsible for the torture and death of more people than any other ‘organization’ with the only possible exception being the Jewish holocaust.

      But I dont want to drag this question off topic too much…

  28. Hi CareTaker,

    Not the Catholic Church, but the people running it. Being pedantic, sorry. No wonder so many people are frightened of ‘God’ by the name of God. It’s what they teach .. fear God, fear hell, fear judgment. How can you build a relationship with a deity that wants to kill you if you step out of line? Think how ‘brave’ a good Catholic must be to even contemplate suicide .. to bring it back on topic. … Going sideways again …

    Dear God, we really need help. Just look around us, we are manifesting on this planet, the beliefs of humanity .. a judgmental, frightened (otherwise why hit out?) small, nasty God is the living example for his/her people, through its representatives among the humans .. and we are all capable of playing ‘follow the leader’. When someone like the Gandhi, or Mother Theresa (who, I have been told on good authority, could swear like a trouper), asks us to step up and be good people, to practise Love and Peace .. what do we do .. we give it a bit of a go … until someone challenges us in a way that makes us react in fear. Do we confront the fear and recognise it as our egos out-of-control, no, we act like petty gods (small g) and want to smite.

    And the living example is the people running the Catholic Church, and many other churches .. do what I say or you will be excommunicated, and/or tortured, in the far past.

    I can rant like this for hours but its only feeding negativity to negativity.

    Love one another. Act from love. Make Love your first thought in the morning, and the last thought at night .. and if you can’t call it ‘God’ by any name .. then don’t. Just DO IT.

    Retiring quietly to drive to the airport .. 1 & 1/4 hours both ways.

    Have a great night,
    Love & Peace,

  29. Wow, I see this thread has gotten lively. Ama, you and Luna, are in my beliefs, living in an unrealistic world. You want a utopian world in the spirit world which is unrealistic. You want to create your own “church” with a loving God who loves everyone unconditionally, no matter what that person has done in life. That’s simply unrealistic. If we applied this unconditional love to life here on earth, there would be total chaos. What would you and Luna say if I was God and told you and her to go to the prisons in America and free all the male rapist. I told both of you to free all the rapist and invite them into your homes and love them unconditionally. What do you think would happen to the both of you if I came back to your homes a week later.

    More than likely, nothing would be left of you two. What if I told you to release all the child molesters from prison and invite them into your home to live with your children. What would happen to your children if I visited your homes a week later. More than likely there would be nothing left of your children. Yes, unconditional love is good but unconditional love to the point of naivety is dangerous. Why would you want God to love child molesters unconditionally and accept them into heaven with innocent children? Why would you want God to love serial rapist unconditionally and accept them into heaven with innocent women? We wouldn’t even do this on earth so why would you believe an all-knowing all-powerful God would be so naive to allow good and evil to reside together in a “perfect kingdom”.

    This makes absolutely no sense and its not logical from any point of view. If murderers, rapist, child molesters are in heaven with nuns, prophets, children and women there would be total chaos. If man is imperfect and God is perfect how could God have an imperfect kingdom if he is supposed to be perfect. You even believe in the Fallen Angels story. The Angels were thrown out of Heaven because they were having sex with the earth women and teaching humans sorcery and other evil stuff. God saw this happening and threw those angels out of heaven and created “hell” for them as they say.

    If you believe in the Fallen Angels story, how can you then proclaim that God is not “judgmental”. Here is a clear sign of God’s judgement in the Fallen Angels story. God saw what those angels were doing on earth and made a judgement to throw them out of heaven and created a “hell” for them to live forever, as they say. That right there is a clear sign that God does “judge” and yet people say that God doesn’t judge us. There are many clear signs in the Bible where God “judges”. How can you believe in the Fallen Angels story but then say that God is not a judgmental God? How can you explain this.

    Also, the Romans were Pagans. Those Romans studied and stole alot of stories, ideas, beliefs, Gods and everything else from Egypt. Alot of the garb and symbols you see the Pope wearing can also be found on the walls inside of the Egyptian pyramids. The Roman church did not create hell or none of that stuff to frighten no one. It was already there. Alot of that stuff came out of Egypt or North Africa. Even the ouija board which people claim is from the French is really from Morocco, West Africa. The French got it from them, the concept.. The Ancient Egyptians believed in a heaven and a underworld (hell).

    This was waay before any of the monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christian, etc.) came to be. They also had pictures of the “underworld” in paintings in the pyramids. Their underworld was depicted as a fiery lake where fire demons were torturing damned souls in this lake. This is where I believe Christianity got the “Lake of Fire’” from. I have a picture of this somewhere and I can post it to show you.

    Even the Ancients believed that the creator judged you by your heart and what you did on earth. Alot of that stuff about heaven, hell, re-incarnation, judgement is ancient in origin. It did not originate in any Catholic church or any monotheistic religion. The belief/knowledge was already there. The Romans only used it to their advantage when they saw how fast “religion” was spreading.

  30. BC,
    First off, I want to let you know that I repect your oppinion; however, I would like to pose one question to you. Now i was born and raised Catholic and spent 12 years in Catholic schools. I was taught that God has “unconditional” love for us, (“Note the word “unconditional.” ) but in the same hand, if you do this or that, you will go to hell. My question for you is, how can you love someone unconditionally on one hand and then smite them and send them to hell with the other? That’s not really unconditional love, is it? What I can gather, as being human, our minds are too small to even wrap around the concept of God. Our minds can not handle the information. Justice is something we have created because we can not fathom the true power and greatness of our Creator. You want to say that what Ama and I believe is unrealistic; well, that’s okay. But just remeber one thing; Religion, ALL religions were created by man, and the Bible was written by man. If the Bible was written by God(which, at this point I am unsure of) it has been re- written and eddited so many times, BY MAN, that we have more than likely lost much of what God wanted us to know.

  31. Hi BC, I have questions too .. and they will probably make you angry .. but why do you hate so much? Why are you so fearful of life? Why must justice be ‘by the sword’ and not by a loving heart?

    And now I’ll answer your questions .. though I have answered some of them before …

    To start with – I don’t have a utopian view of this world or the spiritual world. I am a Demonologist. I was born one and will die one, because that is my ‘calling’. It’s not done through fascination with the occult that some people develop over the years .. I started my training at two. There is nothing utopian about taking demons off people, or from them, or out of their energy .. of walking into locations that sicken your soul and could crush your spirit .. so make no mistake about it .. I am a very tough cookie and I know what I am talking about. That having been said, I will slip back into my utopia. LOL

    If we could apply unconditional love on this planet, if every person could wrap it around themselves and let it heal their wounds and take away their pain .. we wouldn’t need gaols .. because people wouldn’t rape and murder and molest each other – and karma wouldn’t be needed anymore – because we would have learned all the lessons that God/Spirit is trying to teach us .. but no, we have to have our free will – the right to harm others?? Geeez there must be a better use for it, don’t you think.

    On May 12, on this webpage, I answered what I think of the legal system. Why are you still nagging on this point? And another question – what happened to you that has hurt you so badly? Because you come across to me as being very angry and hurt – and I am so sorry about that.

    Another thought for you is the need to separate who you are now from who you are as a spiritual being .. in other words, who you become after you die. You see, who I am now, who you are now, is only a tiny part of who we truly are when we go Home. God/Spirit accepts back this ‘true’ self, not the ego driven, frightened, angry self .. we go into healing to be set free of those experiences, of all the pain of the lifetime .. and then yes, we are clear and free spirits, and we have accumulated karma to ‘balance’, or repay, if you prefer that term. Our true self is a part of the greater whole that is the energy of creation, or Source, that some people know as God or Allah or whomever, and we become ‘one’ with it again. There is nothing naive in this .. we are simply becoming whole.

    No, the angels were not throw out of heaven because they had sex with humans. They were thrown out of heaven because they created discord in heaven .. you didn’t read my book, did you? It is all clearly explained there. Humans have added their theories to process over time .. and there are lots of theories, and they are all fun .. but they all end up with the fallen angels/greater demons being here on the planet with us .. sigh .. which is why I am a demonologist, among other reasons.

    Also, the bible has a variety of God’s in it. In the Old Testament, which you are speaking of, the God’s name is Jehovah and he’s a nasty piece of work. In the New Testament we have EL who taught – love one another. EL is also in the Old Testament, doing good, but Jehovah controlled the people who wrote the Old Testament, and the people who lived before that, and EL only really stepped in with JC and the crucificion (is that where we get a ‘war between the gods scenario from?). If you are Christian then you might have read the bible, or perhaps you do as so many other people do, you remember the nasty bits people tell you and focus on them, rather seeing the words “I have come to teach you a new way” that Jesus said – and he did – but do we listen? Why are we all still so focused on the old ..?

    I’ll tell you why. This planet first belonged to demons, and demons still hold strong influence over all of us here. Yes, I know the history of the history before the bible. I know why people ‘see’ what they do in NDE’s, and all about the egyptian mythology, as well as many other civilizations creation/heaven/hell stories. I know why people still believe in hell. It’s all in my book.

    None of that has changed what I know in my soul, what I remember from my past lives, between life experiences and contacts with God and Jesus Christ in this lifetime. BTW, I don’t remember the pyramids having paintings in them .. tombs certainly. But in the Kufu (Cheops) pyramid I only remember a lot of dust. Yes, visiting Egypt was part of my journey in this lifetime.

    You may not accept what I say, BigChief, but try not to close your heart to the possibility of Love being the guiding force on this planet. We all need to be open to change .. to allow it to flow in – otherwise we feed the dark.

    Love & Peace

  32. Haha. I love it!! The discussion is heating up. No hate or anger on my part, just love to be the antagonist every now and then. Ok, one at a time. First, I will answer Ms. LunaTerra here. You asked me if the Catholic Church preach “unconditional love” then why do they say we go to hell in the next sentence. Where in any scriptures did it state that God loves us unconditionally no matter what we do? Lead me to the scriptures anywhere in the Bible or Asian scriptures or Muslim scriptures or Indian scriptures etc…. Just because the Catholic Church says so that doesn’t make them correct. Just like church preachers saying that all gays and people who commit suicide will go to hell. No where in the scriptures in any religion does it state this.

    This is man creating his own rules and condemnation in his own mind. Just like Ms. Ama saying everyone will make it to heaven no matter what they do on earth. This is just her opinion, mans opinion, that doesn’t make it correct. My answer to your question is if it doesn’t say it in any religious or ancient scriptures then its mans or the church’s own invention.. You say that all religion was created by man but your beliefs were also created by man, yourself. You created your own beliefs based on your own personal feelings/experiences. If you and Ms. Ama were to create a new church with followers you would also be doing the same thing as “religion” has done as you say.

    You would be creating a “religion” or followers based on your own personal beliefs. What would make any of yall any different than the “man” that created religion? Who should we follow, ancient scriptures and religion or new age psychics? How would a neutral person know who to believe?? Should man throw away 1000′s of years of ancient scripture for New Age psychic beliefs? If scriptures were re-written over and over again how do we know that the nowadays psychic knows what God wants of us and what God is all about? How do we know that these psychics today are not being misled by their spirit guides??

    I see alot of psychics today like Sylvia Browne and others urging people to get in contact with their spirit guides. Urging them to talk to spirits. Many of them say that the church is using religion to hold people back from getting more spiritual but to me what they are urging people to do is dangerous. Not everyone on earth has good beings surrounding them. What some people may think are their spirit guide may be a negative entity instead leading them astray? I see alot of new age psychics doing this today. I see alot of them on youtube teaching people to open up to spirit guides and talking with spirits like its nothing.

    In my opinion, I think this new age psychic stuff is dangerous. Back in the ancient days, only experienced shamans/sorcerers etc.. would contact spirits. Nowadays, everyone is encouraged to do so. Not every psychic has the same beliefs. Just like Ms. Ama stated how Sylvia Browne beliefs in Carrion Angels and Ms. Ama says that they’re not real.. Different psychics have different beliefs. If we throw away old scriptures because they’ve been re-written and re-told over the years, which psychic should we rely on. Sylvia Brown or Ms. Ama (just using you as an example). Who should we believe if we’re not to believe in old scriptures?

    This is where it gets confusing. Sylvia Brown creating her own beliefs and Ms. Ama creating her own beliefs. Who should we follow? Who is correct? How would one know this since both of their beliefs were created by “man”, their ownselves?

    To Ms. Ama. I don’t believe that justice should be done by the sword but what I’m trying to say is that you are creating an unrealistic God or heaven. You can’t have it both ways. You say you believe in the Fallen Angels story (which is a good depiction of God’s judgement) then you say in another sentence “God is not judgmental”. You can’t believe in the 2 because they are contradictory. You stated above that God threw the Angels out of heaven because they caused discord in heaven. That still shows that God is judgemental. How can God throw Angels out of heaven for causing discord, then accept man in heaven who caused discord on earth (rape, murder, etc..). Didn’t God also throw Adam and Eve out of heaven from eating from the forbidden tree?

    Does God only judge those in heaven? Does God not judge those on earth? Where in any scriptures anywhere does it say God judges on heaven but not on earth? That’s it for now. Just looking for a nice clean discussion..

  33. Hi BC,

    God doesn’t judge anybody. If he did we’d all be dead now, because we break the rules all the time ..since you want to throw back old scriptures – they are called the Ten Commandments.

    No, Adam and Eve are a myth. There was no ‘one man’ or ‘one woman’, because Adam’s first wife was Lilith, and according to some she’s a demon (and I agree), and according to others she’s just a woman. So you see, there were 2 women .. and then there is the mention of far more people .. somewhere .. where was it .. is it inferred, like so much else, in the bible? And .. think of genetics .. if they were the only people, and Lilith didn’t have kids, and Eve only had boys .. one of whom killed the other .. who did Cain have kids with?

    So the old scriptures, starting with Genesis .. sorry mate, use them as you will, but don’t call them all truth .. otherwise cloning happened in very ancient times .. only how did they get girls from Cain, since he was supposed to be so manly?? (think violent).

    As for my beliefs and Sylvia’s, I couldn’t agree more. Follow whom your heart is drawn to, and what ‘feels’ right. If it does no harm, and you are a good and loving person because of it, then it doesn’t matter if you must believe in carrion angels .. just hope they don’t come for when you die. LOL You know the old saying – be careful what you wish for, you might get it. .. its about creating your reality.

    I agree starting a church is a dumb idea, though the principle is good. And you are suggesting that I want to impose my will on others? No. I want to create a place where all the best beliefs of many religions can live together, because it might just help people get past appalling prejudices, and the need to fight each other. Is that a bad thing BC? Is it creating a bad world? I don’t think so. I am all about helping people find their loving core, their own truth and happiness .. so if the God is Jehovah .. why aren’t I dead? Because Jehovah smited (lovely word) anyone who didn’t agree with him .. and I’m just fine thanks.

    And just for the record – I am not the least bit new agey. My angels require me to be as
    ‘normal’ as possible, ordinary, quiet, nondescript. I work behind the scenes in people’s lives, and always have.

    So please, believe what you will. Love to hate, instead of loving to love. Create arguments for fun and be spiteful .. so many people are in this world are – and I will try not to, as so many other people, new agers or not, are also trying to do. It’s the manifestation of the war in heaven here on earth .. and absolutely what we are trying to avoid.

    We love you,
    Ama and her angels.

  34. Forgive me,
    I am on a path of spiritual self discovery, and i am calling out things that I feel to me are flawed or don’t make sense. Religion and spirituality is a very personal thing, and different for everyone. if one specific religion were the “right” religion, why are there so many different ones? And yes, again I agree with Ama; why can’t we be a more loving and peaceful people? Why is the concept of a loving God so difficult for certain individuals to wrap their minds around?! Perfect example is a mother who’s son may have committed a horrible crime. He is doing time in prison, but, although that mother is disapointed and sad for her son, she never stopped loving him. Now granted, there are parents in the world who do not care at all for their kids, but that is for a different discussion. The only thing I can say, is that a mother’s love for her child, is the closest thing you can come to unconditional love. To know that someone loves you, no matter what mistakes you have made, can empower a person to possibly change the error of his ways. Love is an uplifting thing, and after all, Christ did say, love thy enemies. He never said smite them to hell.

    And, by the way, what makes the bible different from, say greek mythology? Maybe the ancient greeks believed that their writing was sacred scripture. And the Egyptians with their religious scripture. I am not trying to impose what I believe on anyone else. I am here, discussing and searching for spiritual enlightenment, and have found that the more information I gather, the more questions I have. I may, in this lifetime, never completely come to all the answers, but maybe just maybe, I am getting just that much closer to it. I wish you the best of luck, BC, as you seem to know what you believe, but for me, I am not satisfied with someone telling me what I should believe and telling me that I shouldn’t question anything. For the record; God is everywhere, we don’t need a church to find him and connect with him.

  35. Hold on.

    How has the catholic church killed more people than any other organisation?

    What about the Muslims that still stone people to death and kill each other everyday..
    Honour killings and such.
    The united states has probably killed more people than the catholic church..

    Actually i expect the British Empire has as well. What are we counting as an organisation here? If the Nazi party counts as one then the US and Britain must as well.

    And if you look at it from a religious perspective, Suicide must surely get you into hell. Honour thy mother and father? Suicide is a very selfish act. The body is a temple, etc.

    It wasn’t too long ago that people who committed suicide weren’t even buried in Hallowed ground. Thats not to say thats the case, who can say which if any religion is right? Maybe it’s a bit of all of them. Or maybe none of it’s real and we only get 1 shot at life and then we’re gone forever.

    To me it seems strange that God who supposedly designed our brains and fully comprehends the entire workings of the human body and Psyche, to then condemn people who’s brains function in a different way to hell.

  36. i would say probably its up to what religion you’re in. its like what is bushido in japan, or jihad to the muslims. i myself do not agree with suicide….

  37. I look at it this way: Life is all about lessons. We must live them in order to learn from them. God wouldn’t send someone to hell for ending the lesson earlier than anticipated just as I wouldn’t disown my child for quitting college before he/she graduated. While I would be disappointed in them, I would forgive them, because I love them unconditionally. They are a part of me, just as each of us is a part of God. There is absolutely nothing my children could ever do to make me give up on them…and if God sent us to hell for ending our lives, he would essentially be giving up on us.

    That, however, is my personal opinion. I believe in a God that loves us unconditionally, because we are all his children. He wants to see us succeed but, he will never give up on us if try as hard as we can to live life in a way that will make him proud. Some people may see this as unrealistic, or ‘utopian’ ;) but, this is what I believe deep down in my soul to be the truth.

  38. Wait did you all miss the remark Ama actually felt “the LIliths” energies?

    I am pretty sure christians are told not to deal with any spiritual stuff that is not of god.

    War and death are almost always over religion, Or had some religious significance.

    Suicide can be cause by changing your medications, outside influences, a bad holiday and a handgun. One really depressed day. Or oops i fell asleep and left the stove on and now im dead.

  39. Personaly, and I am a Babtist and a conservative(tist. whatever), I believe that in a perfect world, there will be no need for violence. But this world sure as heck aint perfect. And I wouldnt hesitate to blow somebodies head off if they threatened my family. Id probably laugh too, but nobody said I was sane. Happy, loving people are fun to be around, no matter what they believe. But I think religious debates are pretty much useless because people believe what they want. Ive been told that God will forgive any sin but one, as long as you ask for forgiveness. I think that one sin is blasphemy but I have my opinions. It doesnt say in the Bible(I think) It says in the Revelations that God will Rapture away his followers and there will be a time when his prophets once again walk the earth. That is to give people a chance to accept him. But those who dont will face the plauges and all that. Its hard to understand. But once your in Hell, you cant get out. Your there for a reason. If you killed 70 people in your right mind, knowing you done wronv then ask for forgiveness but dont mean it, that might get you there. Turning your back on God will get you there. In fact, its a commandment. “Thou shalt have no other God before me.” But if you sin and ask for forgiveness, and truly mean it, you will be forgiven. Im not sure what to believe when it comes to ghosts other than there are angels and demons. Demons will do whatever you let them but have to obey you. Angels protect us and watch over us.
    Also, on a side note, all innocents, such as babies, mentally retarded and others who cant fully understand the Bible and God, are in His light and will go to Heaven after death. I also dont believe in reincarnation. Why would you want to leave your Fathers side for a place like earth?
    And, on the original topic, Suicide is a cowardly way to go. Give yourself to God and ask for help. He will help you. It says in the Bible, “Ask and you shall recieve.” And in the case of a scam artist who takes the easy way out, they deserve hell!

  40. Also, God loves us all, but like you may punish your child for spitting in your face(which is essentially what your doing when you commit blasphemy) you punish them. Is our Father not allowed to punish us as we see fit?
    I mentioned earlier I was a Babtist, let me rephrase that. I was brought up in an amazingly wonderful Babtist church, but it was shut down because of no indoor plumbing… I dont have a set denomination. I just believe in God our savior and his son, Jesus Christ who will come back someday (somebody said last Saturday, the 21st.) But I also know the Bible says not even Jesus knows, so we wont either. These people who claim go see in the future, like Nostradomus(or however its spelled) really irk me. They claim to see the end of the world, and know itll happen. But Jesus doesnt so why do they think they do? Also, I read on the site somewhere that somebody reached into the future to see how far they can go, a comment on that. You may “see” 20 years from now, but the rapture could be tomorow. Maybe thats your personal Heaven, or God stopping you from stressing over knowing. And, Ive been told by the most reliable source I have that reads the Bible more than any preacher, and has dedicated ber whole, cancer-ridden life to, thet we are in the 5th seal of the Revelations. Been told by several people, actually.
    But Im chasing rabbits. Suicide isnt a great thing to do, but it can be forgiven I guess. My eyes burn so Im goin to bed XD

  41. Hi JG.

    I don’t think “oops I left the stove on and now I’m dead” is suicide. Suicide is actually meaning to kill yourself, knowingly setting out to end your life. People may actually gas themselves by their cookers but a person that has left it on unknowingly and unfortunately dies from that cause is purely accidental. There are a million and one ways a person can leave this life, whether it is naturally (old age, illness), accidental, knowingly by their own hand (so to speak), accidental by somebody else or murdered. Suicide is the most common amongst the depressed. If we as humans could just give up a little bit of our time and sit down to listen, maybe we would prevent that person from suicide.

  42. Hi Kinzy,

    It’s me you are mostly commenting on. I actually don’t believe God punishes us for anything. Too many people baspheme in front of me, and they just fine afterwards. God may be hurt, but I don’t see him striking any of them down .. and you would think he would have started to do that by now .. its been over 4000 years since Moses got the 10 commandments.

    You made me smile with your rabbit comment. My dog turns his head when he sees a rabbit in our orchard. He always makes me laugh. He’ll chase them for a short way, if it is very far from him .. but the minute it stops he’s ‘not’ seeing them at all. :-)

    Sometimes its good to chase rabbits, to discuss what we do, or do not believe. It helps us to a better understanding of the world we live in, even if those beliefs change as we get older.

    I am very sorry your lovely church closed. I hope they get the plumbing problems fixed very quickly.

    I am also very sorry your friend has cancer. I had a brush with that too, and I know what a life changing experience it can be.

    Wishing you a lovely week,
    Love & Peace

  43. Ama,

    I never did say he would smite us and hit us with lightening(but hey, it happens to be 7x more likely to happen than winning the lottery). I meant that on Judgement Day, which is mentioned in Revelations, that we will all be judged. Thats when he will decide our punishment.

    Our church got shut down years ago, so I doubt it’ll re-open. But everyone was literally family in there. Maybe thats why it felt so comfortable. (I have terrible shyness. Around new people I just blush and look at the floor. I always get so embarrased.)

    That chasing rabbits is just a saying down here we use all the time. But were rednecks so… My dog chases rabbits to, or he did before he died. Id say ‘go get me a rabbit for dinner, Jake!’ and an hour or so later Id have a freshly killed rabbit without and chew marks or anything. When I fried them I always shared with him. He didnt even know he was a dog. Lol

    Its my mamaw. This is her 5th or 6th round with cancer. This time its an extremely aggresive and rare kind, but we’ve about got it licked. I actually have a 70% chance of getting ovarian cancer, just like Mom and Mamaw. Lucky me…

  44. Hey Kinzy. I don’t want to steam in on your chat with Ama but I’m a two time cancer survivor (breast). It’s NOT a death sentence babes. This time last year I was finishing chemotherapy. Now I’m cancer free (again). The first time, I was 29 and scared witless. The second time I was 33 and defiant. Survivors have a saying “I’m Living with Ned” (no evidence of disease) and i’m 98% there. I just need the doctors to confirm. My point is, if you ever need a shoulder to lean on or if you ever want to talk, chat about whatever then you have friends here that will be there for you, myself included.

    All my love and best wishes. Stay defiant, and strong for your family. We got your back.

    Steph xxx

  45. Mamaws had different cancers about 6 times, gone through chemo for 2 of them and plenty of radition. Its a wonder she dont glow in the dark. Its good to know I have friends too. My family keeps uprooting… My Mom left her bf for her husband twice and I think Im gonna have a nervos breakdown!
    And just to make this legit, my mom says that people who are in their right mind wont commit suicide. So she doesnt think they go to hell.

  46. God doesn’t smite people?

    What about all the earthquakes, volcanoes, disease, tornado’s, hurricanes, tsunamis and every other “Act of God”.

    There’s you’re smiting right there. Good people dying for reasons any God could have avoided. I understand we have free will, and original sin etc. So he can’t intervene on what we do to each other.
    But could he really not have stopped the Japanese tsunami? Or the Brazilian Mudslides? Or that tornado that just destroyed that city in the states?

    Only conclusions, There is no God. God Doesn’t care, God is punishing us, Or God isn’t as powerful as we thought.

    • That’s almost like saying that there are no parents because some children get hurt or that there is no such thing as law and justice because some crimes go unpunished. Why would a volcano be called an “Act of God” anyway? I think that term is just for insurance purposes.

  47. If a parent knows their house is going to be demolished, they make sure their kids arn’t in the house that day…

    If this is a place supposedly created by God, why then are there Earthquakes and such that he can control?

    He can’t intervene in our own lives because we have free will, and a parent will never instruct their grown child on what they should do, only advise and let them make their own choices. But that parent will still always tell the child if the brakes on their car have been cut or something. Just because they can’t directly control their child life anymore, doesn’t mean they just neglect them and allow them to be killed by avoidable things.

    • So the only way that a God could exist is if everything in the world was perfect and no one ever suffered or had problems?

  48. The Story of Noah’s arc.
    Prime example of God not caring and allowing virtually everything on the planet to die.

  49. Hey BJ,

    What created the mudslides, the earth quakes, the tornadoes .. could it be the hand of man inside all of those events, as we maltreat the Earth, stripping it of its natural resources, blowing it up, turning it into deserts? One core of belief, and I agree with this, is that Gaia (the earth) has a mind of her own. Don’t make her mad, she might just react. However ….

    At the present moment the teutonic plates are shifting rather a lot .. though millimetres doesn’t sound like much in our terms, in earth terms it means big shakeups .. and so we are having violent earth reactions, volcanoes and earthquakes etc. The Gulf Stream has stopped flowing due to the icecaps melting, so the world’s weather, all over the world, has changed, and we are having the tornadoes etc in places they have never been before, and heavier snows in some locations, and hotter summers in others, and .. everything else. According to some it is forced ‘global warming’, and according others its all natural. And then there’s the rain. That is what causes mudslides, too much water between the dirt particles on lands that have been stripped of their trees and undergrowth .. and for what, money?? .. one drop more and down it comes .. and we build in the most illogical locations .. like flood plains .. so we really can’t complain when they flood, and at the bottom of hills, so when the mountain falls and lands on the buildings .. whose fault is that? Not God.

    God gave humanity free will to live right and love right, and look after our home planet, and ourselves and each other. If we choose to blow up the planet, ‘he’s’ not going to step in and stop us. It is a pity that people have to turn around then and blame God for what is happening, when its nothing to do with him/her.

    And BTW, if there are multiple God’s .. how come one of the others hasn’t stepped in to stop all this stuff?

    Here’s another belief for you to try and digest .. its sticks in my throat and I had a fight with a good friend over it, because I don’t believe in a judgmental God. According to his beliefs one million people are willingly sacrificing themselves for the ‘greater good’ of the other seven billion, so that we can all ascend on the 21 December next year (or is it only 144,000 of us, according to the Christian Bible – seems such a waste of the rest of us who are staying. LOL). So far its only been too many thousands .. is this something to look forward to? And what does that have to do with God .. nothing again.

    With our thoughts we create the world? Is this another way of Spirit’s trying to remind us that humanity is a collective group, when we aren’t being small-minded individuals who choose to live in fear? I doubt it. They are not cruel! But something has to be done to try and help people work ‘together’.

    Don’t blame God for what is happening. Look more closely at your own world around you, while I am looking at mine. If we are such a strong and wise collective being .. then we should be able to work out how to stop all this ourselves. But we won’t .. it might cost too much of our hard-earned dollar. It’s simpler, and less demanding, to blame other people .. or God.

    God blimey,
    Love & Peace
    Ama LOL

    • mudslides, the earth quakes, the tornadoes happen regardless of whether or not people are there. While I would agree that there are situations where humans can exacerbate these “events” they happen as part of nature

  50. Sorry, BJ, but if God didn’t care, why did he bother to save Noah and his family, and millions of animals?

    BTW, its probably an allegory, not a fact – though scientists have found that tremedous floods have happened in prehistory.

    Wishing you a lovely day,
    Love & Peace

  51. Dear Caretaker ..

    A perfect world .. I think that is what we are supposed to be trying to create. LOL

    And I agree, that disasters happen as part of nature .. but we are certainly helping them along.

    Have a great day,
    Love & Peace

  52. Wow.

    Firstly. I believe the bible was written by man, not upon the instruction of God. I cannot prove that the stories written are just that – stories. But I believe any and all religion is used to control humankind. Even in our law systems it is used by swearing on the bible, that you are telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So help you God.

    I was a staunch atheist. I believed in a nothingness. No God. No afterlife. Nothing. Earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Game over. But I swear on my own good name, I felt an amazing sense of love, clarity, understanding. Like knowing that whatever your mistakes, somebody will always love you. From that moment, I knew God existed. God. Not religion. I can’t follow religion when I know in my heart I have a direct link to God. God isn’t Jesus Christ. God isn’t Noah’s Ark. God isn’t 700 pages of complete babble that I will never get my head around and I will never want to. The link is simple. You and God. Yes, I have a complete abhorrent attitude towards religion. Faith does not require you to read prayer, bedtime stories, take communion, blah blah. Faith does not require you to make bombs and kill in the name of. Faith is simple. It’s a belief in God. Its knowing that you’ll never be alone. My point is God did not cause the stuff that happens. They’re called natural disasters. Imagine the earth as a human being. Why do humans get the flu? Why do we have hayfever? Asthma? Cancer? Because our bodies do carry viruses. The earth carries its own viruses. It also can self heal like humanity, or it can self destruct, like humanity. God doesn’t cause it. Mother Nature does. Its how the world works. That’s it. End of. Simple. X

  53. “Sorry, BJ, but if God didn’t care, why did he bother to save Noah and his family, and millions of animals?”

    Oh right, so because saved 1 man and his family, and some animals, that means we should all love him unconditionally? No! Think of the other billions of people who would have drowned, watched their families dying, their homes flooded, felt hopeless, and then to top it all off they probably wen’t to hell. They definitely didn’t get into Heaven because “Christ” hadn’t shown up to open the doors yet.

    Who is God to give us life, allow us to feel everything we do, and then throw us to the wolves? Okay so we may not be the same level of life as him, or angels or whatever, we are impure, but he made us that way. HE gave us free will, he built us with the hard wiring to succumb to temptation. How can anyone believe, that God doesn’t know or can’t predict what we are doing, what we will do etc. He is supposedly ALL knowing, and ALL powerful.

    Why create a world for the beings you supposedly love, that’s going to kill millions of them. Even if Global warming is man’s fault, it wasn’t 200 year’s ago and there where still natural disasters. If this is just the way the world is, we’re lucky to exist at all, let alone have higher intelligence AND be born in the small percentage of people who don’t live in poverty or disease, then i can cope with that. I can make the best of it. And i can still believe there are things in this world we don’t understand, supernatural things. Or even if there used to be a God but he’s gone now.

    But if there still is a God, a puppet master, then that makes the situation we are in so much worse for me. I’m not saying i don’t believe in God, i’m not entirely sure. But on some level i almost hope there isn’t.

    I guess i’d better hope there isn’t a God now after saying all that, i am well an truly destined for the pit now.

  54. Hahaha. I don’t respond to people for the sake of purposely creating an argument. Its just funny to me to see people go bezerk over comments on the internet. Sometimes, I go bezerk on the internet myself but its all comical to me. None the less, to BigJim, you say if there is a God then why do people die of earthquakes, tsunamis and what have not. BigJim, I want you to answer this question for me please:

    1. Which planet in the universe, besides earth, is habitable enough for us to live on? Which planet besides earth can house human, animal and plant life? Most, if not all of the other planets that scientist have studied are inhabitable for humans. Some of the planets have hurricane winds of up to 600 miles per hour.

    Planet earth is the only suitable planet for us to live on right now. How do you expect the planet to be a perfect planet. If its not a perfect planet then you claim God is not real. If God gives us free will then what does free will entail. Must God interfere in everything in the universe. If God interfered in everything on earth then there wouldn’t be a such thing as free will now, would it. It would be God’s will and we would be like robots waiting for God to solve all our problems for us.

    Natural disasters happens. God put us on the best planet that can sustain animal, plant and human life. If you don’t like the planet Earth, then build a space ship and fly to Mars, Saturn, Jupiter and the likes and lets see how long you will last. You probably wouldn’t live longer than a week on those planets.

    God is neutral with matters on earth, in my opinion. He put you on earth to experience a earthly human life and you must deal with it as best as you can. The human life is short, the spirit life is forever. Its not like you die on earth and your gone forever. Your still there, just not in human body form. Suppose God never created you or any humans for that matter. You would have nothing to complain about because you have no existence. God gave you existence so the rest is up to you. You want him to hold your hand and walk with you every step of the way??

  55. Hey BJ,

    What about an unconditionally loving God? Is it so hard to factor him into the equation? What about remembering that humans wrote the Bible, and not seeing it as the only truth .. which if it was .. showed God as a nasty piece of work.

    An unconditionally loving God gave you the gift of free will, to choose to whatever you want .. you personally .. 24/7? No smiting, No hell. No punishment except your own conscience that hurts like hell when you break your own rules? Humans might try and take that away from you, but you can deal with humans on your own level.

    So you are angry at God for nasty things that happen to humanity .. and where does it get you .. more pain and fear. Great case for the devil’s work among humanity. And you would rather have no God than one you think kills people. I agree totally. I guess I’m luck because, I KNOW better. I don’t have to live in fear of ‘what might be’, because I’ve experienced the loving God and have no doubts about its reality.

    And Noah was a story in ‘that book’! A story, not a fact .. and the reality is, one small family could not have bred all the people in the world. Were there 2 sons or 3 sons and their wives and children? I am not going to look it up .. but genetically, if they had been the only people actually left, if it actually happened, humanity wouldn’t exist now. So that proves its a LEGEND, not a fact. Just like I’ve been saying all along .. the Bible is an interesting book of stories, myths and legends .. only the Christian church, in their need to rule the world, tried to teach it as fact .. and some of them still do.

    So, don’t believe in God. He won’t mind, because as the angels said to me many years ago

    “It doesn’t matter if they (humans) don’t believe in us, because we believe in them”. That’s love for you.

    Love & Peace
    p.s. when Noah supposedly happened .. there was not even one billion people on the earth….

  56. Big Chief, great comment. I am blowing kisses in your direction. You are welcome to duck. LOL

    Love & Peace
    .. going back to holding hands.

  57. I don’t think BigJim said he didn’t believe in God. I think he just doesn’t believe in a God who loves us unconditionally. Looking back, I can sympathise as when I was atheist, I wondered what God would let innocents die too. I know different now.

    Jim, you’re not going to the pit mate. If we have logic and reasoning don’t you think God would want you to use it? Its not a crime to question the existence of Him/Her. I’d say it was the most common of questions ever posed by humanity. Chin up bloke, you’re fine! :D

  58. Thanks Girlracer. :)

    Big Chief.

    God by his very definition is ALL powerful, if he just stumbled across a world that is, “alright” in that it will keep us alive, then that isn’t very powerful. If he has the tools/power and the know how the create human life, he can create a planet that doesn’t have natural disasters.

    I’m not saying i want God to hold my hand all my life, nor am i saying i want him to solve my problems. I don’t want to be reading lines from a script for all eternity and i am grateful for my own mind.

    I’m just saying, maybe on the 7th day, instead of resting, he should have made a planet that doesn’t kill quite so many people.
    You don’t build a house for you’re children where the roof is going to occasionally fall in.

    Or maybe, as my original point was intended to be… He did make a world like that, and the natural disasters, lightning strikes etc, is him smiting people.

    I can believe there is or used to be a God, however i don’t believe he loves us all unconditionally as his children.

  59. the being of oneself is as the being of people when one kill himself is like a murderer kill another. whats different between this twin? A person that murder himself don’t know who is God. He hasn’t any hope to god and has not noticed to gods rule and command. Devil solicits him to commit suicide and he accepts and who obey of devil is not under command of god and who that don’t notice to god and is not under his command how can step in straight way which ended to Paradise ? But sometime here is an exception. May god forgive one because may he repent in last moment of his life and has apologized of god and god has pitied about him and has accepted his repent.but such condition is not certain and no extended about all

  60. Actually Manss .. ‘good’ Christians also kill themselves, given desperate circumstances. Think of people who throw themselves on grenades to save their fellow wo/men .. God doesn’t abandon them for their act of sacrifice, otherwise he would have abandoned Jesus setting up his own execution? It is still a form of suicide. And a person deep in depression will often think ‘no one’ can help them .. and regardless of whether this is true, God is waiting to greet them and love them and help them to heal.

    As for deathbed apologies .. or buying your way into heaven, the way the catholic church used to do it .. and probably still does .. do you think God won’t know they probably did it from fear, and not genuine regret. That makes God a small and stupid being, that it can’t read our hearts and know our minds.

    Yes, sometimes the devil does influence people to kill themselves, but its very final, and the devil wants to have ‘fun’ with its victims and not arrange that ‘too soon’ .. no, they would rather see a human cut him/herself, or burn himself, and other tortures, or murder other people .. and we really have no idea how many murderers have regretted their choices before killing themselves .. there’s a double crime! God waits for them too, to show Love is the only way to find peace.

    All the time humans make God very small, just like us .. small minded, narrow thinking and judgmental.

    What happened to the love?

    Love & Peace

  61. Ama

    it is difference between one who kill himself because of anger or hopeless and one who kill himself in a valuable manner for saving others. these emotions isn’t similar,one is faith and one is suspicion and negative outlook. one of them is hero and one is victim . Of course I’m very sorry and sad for who that has killed himself and hearty wish god forgive him but we have to accept his function was been wrong. why a human must become so angry or so hopeless that damaged himself . I have read a celestial word : ” the anger is a great army of devil ” and also ” hopeless ( about god) is one of the greatest sin “.However I hope such persons instead of fierily or iciness emotions use their wisdom and seek for god’s reality and after finding out him understand god is how mach nice and helpful and also understand the getting rid of problems and sorrow is not commit suicide.

    be joyful

  62. I suppose I should ask if you’ve ever experienced depression? Because I have dealt with depression for years and it has been known to get incredibly bad. I have seen it around me to, but I’m still here; so I can only imagine what someone who kills themselves is going through. I don’t believe for a moment that “God” would take those who suffer most amongst us, to the point that life has become unbearable, and punish them.
    There are those who are very focused on the world as it appears to be and there are those who are looking for answers outside of themselves and that never does anything. If you can quiet yourself, look passed all of the crud going on in the world and get in tune with yourself–then you really feel god and understand things much better. I don’t want anyone to hurt and I have great compassion for those who have taken their own lives; so if I have that, surely a divine being does as well.

  63. I personally do not believe God damns anyone to hell.

    However, those who commit suicide are mentally ill and therefore can’t be held accountable for their actions. And so, even if hell were to exist, you would not find people there because they committed suicide.

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